# Buh Bye Bayh **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110 "2010-02-15T20:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/61 "2010-02-16T15:14:04Z")
I’m all for a big tent, but the rule has always been that if you’re inside the tent, you piss out of it. Bayh and his fellow-travelers (Landrieu, Nelson, etc.) have been pissing on the rug right in the middle of the tent. And Lieberman lurks out around the tentstakes and tries to piss on anyone in the tent that he can. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/62 "2010-02-16T16:25:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m all for a big tent, but the rule has always been that if you’re inside the tent, you piss out of it. Bayh and his fellow-travelers (Landrieu, Nelson, etc.) have been pissing on the rug right in the middle of the tent. > > And Lieberman lurks out around the tentstakes and tries to piss on anyone in the tent that he can. Jeez, **jayjay** , now all of them are going to quit their posts. It will be all your fault! Politicians may be tough, but not tough enough to withstand this onslaught from left-wing blogs, random statements from anonymous Internet posters, and so on. Lieberman is probably huddled in a corner somewhere sobbing right now. Well, one can hope, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/63 "2010-02-16T17:51:00Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What I see is idle speculation and unrelated posts about the latest thing that has occurred that could be seen as damaging to the Democrats, not a debate. Welcome to decemberville, Bricker. The Washington Post’s E.J. Dionne, a liberal’s liberal if ever there was one, says: > [@](#): > > There is no way for Democrats to sugarcoat the news of Sen. Evan Bayh’s retirement: This is mighty good news for Republicans. And the Post’s Charles Lane: > [@](#): > > Millions of Americans long to tell their bosses “take this job and shove it.” Hardly any have the power and money to do so, especially in these recessionary times. Sen. Evan Bayh (D) of Indiana, however, is the exception. His stunning retirement from the Senate is essentially a loud and emphatic “screw you” to President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. From noted conservative bastion MSNBC: > [@](#): > > From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg > \*\*\* Bye, Bayh: If we told you that Democrats were favored to lose about eight Senate seats (six of which are in states Obama carried in '08), lose some 30 to 40 in the House, and see their top domestic issue – health care – stalled in Congress, you’d guess that President Obama’s approval rating was, what, 35%? Maybe 40%? But as any close follower of American politics knows, Obama’s approval is at or near 50% (even at 53% in the always-volatile Gallup daily track). Yet Democrats, including what we saw and heard from Evan Bayh yesterday, are behaving like Obama is at 35%. This is particularly ironic when we’re just a year-plus removed from a president whose approval was 25% to 30%. There is no doubt that this is a TOUGH political environment for Democrats, but are they making it tougher by running for the hills when things might not be as bad for them as was the GOP’s situation from 2006-2008? And what does it say about the Democrats and their ability to govern when they’re acting like this when their president is at 50%? Republicans rallied around their president in '04, when he was hovering around 50%. From CBS News: > [@](#): > > Bayh had a $13 million war chest and 20 point lead over Coats, so his retirement decision caught Democratic leaders completely off guard, reports CBS News Capitol Hill correspondent Nancy Cordes. And from **Hamlet** : > [@](#): > > What I see is idle speculation and unrelated posts about the latest thing that has occurred that could be seen as damaging to the Democrats, not a debate. Yes, whether this is damaging to Democrats is quite the puzzler, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/64 "2010-02-16T17:58:33Z")
Of course it’s damaging to the Democrats, at least in the short term. The Democrats have always been their own worst enemies. The question for the Dems is whether they’re going to pull their thumbs out and take advantage of what positives the situation provides (see the aforementioned tent-pissing analogy) for a longer-term benefit. My guess, based on previous behaviour: Ha ha! No. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/65 "2010-02-16T20:23:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, whether this is damaging to Democrats is quite the puzzler, eh? Try reading my post again, this time for its substance. It was about you acting like december, posting whatever partisan crap is the latest thing that isn’t good for the Democrats. Now, more importantly, would you rather Brickember or DeBricker? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/66 "2010-02-16T20:48:48Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Try reading my post again, this time for its substance. It was about you acting like december, posting whatever partisan crap is the latest thing that isn’t good for the Democrats. > > Now, more importantly, would you rather Brickember or DeBricker? I prefer Anti-Reeder, or Reeder Prime. But no, you’ve still managed to miss the point. _Is there any substance to the idea that Bayh’s abrupt departure was motivated by attacks from the left?_ I don’t blame you for not wanting to discuss the question. It’s embarrassing. But not wanting to even acknowledge that the question exists? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/67 "2010-02-16T20:50:09Z")
Here is a take on it that losing Bayh is a good thing (or can be) for Democrats. > [@](#): > > The headlines announcing Indiana Senator Evan Bayh’s surprise decision to retire after his current term declare that the loss of this particular incumbent represents “a huge blow to Democrats.” > > While it is true that the Democrats might lose the Indiana seat this fall, the loss of Bayh is not a huge blow. > > In fact, Bayh was part of the problem for Senate Democrats, not the solution. > > \ > > As an example of the sort of senator that progressives ought not worry about losing, I cited Bayh, a longtime leader of the pro-corporate Democratic Leadership Council, which has for the better part of a quarter century worked to turn the Democratic Party into a kinder, gentler version of the GOP. > > \ > > The question is whether they can find a candidate who is willing to run as a genuine economic populist – not a compromised centrist like Bayh or an apologist for Obama, whose policies have been at best murky (he still does not seem to get the jobs issue and he has yet to take a clear position on trade) and at worst damaging (his auto bailout has helped fund the closing of U.S. manufacturing plants in states such as Indiana). > > All things being equal, Republicans will win this seat. > > \ > > If Democrats don’t pick a populist, then their efforts to retain the Indiana seat will be wasted. And, at this point, a party that has already wasted way too many opportunities by compromising on economic issues cannot afford to waste any more. > > SOURCE: [http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/530319/bye\_bayh?rel=emailNation](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/530319/bye_bayh?rel=emailNation) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/68 "2010-02-16T20:54:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Here is a take on it that losing Bayh is a good thing (or can be) for Democrats. Distilled to its essence, though, that seems to say the same thing that the anonymous staffer said in my OP: a result of ideologically pure Democrats in the Senate’s minority party. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/69 "2010-02-16T21:09:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I prefer Anti-Reeder, or Reeder Prime. Reedicker? Brider? Maybe we can split the political difference and go with deBrickeeder. Redecker? If you’re happy joining their illustrious company, who am I to complain? > [@Bricker](#): > > But no, you’ve still managed to miss the point. _Is there any substance to the idea that Bayh’s abrupt departure was motivated by attacks from the left?_ > > I don’t blame you for not wanting to discuss the question. It’s embarrassing. But not wanting to even acknowledge that the question exists? Sheesh. You mistake me for a Democrat apologist. I still find the question of why Bayh retired to be a non-Great Debate; which is why I went with “idle speculation” when I described it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/70 "2010-02-16T21:12:06Z")
I think it is becoming clear that Obama’s economic policies are a disaster. Not only are the democrat office holders scared, but they also fear grand juries and congressional inquiries …this is why Dodd and Kennedy are bowing out. The key architects of this disaster (Geithner and Bernake) should also be in fear of indictments. If things remain this bad next year (19+% unemeployment), I think there may well be calls for impeachment.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/71 "2010-02-16T21:15:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Distilled to its essence, though, that seems to say the same thing that the anonymous staffer said in my OP: a result of ideologically pure Democrats in the Senate’s minority party. Well, “ideologically pure” is loaded language designed to sound worse than it has to be. This is not about some Republican-like litmus test for Democrats. It is about getting through policies important to Democrats only to have some in their own party stymie those efforts. They are doing the work of the Republicans for them. The likes of Ben Nelson holding his own party over a barrel to extract free health care for his state in perpetuity? To say nothing of the likes of Lieberman. With friends like that who needs Republicans? I think Democrats’ problem is trying to be somewhere in the middle and appease everyone. It leads to muddled bills that are no good and everyone hates. Republicans will never vote for them so why pander to them? At least try to make those who do vote for you happy. Perhaps it means Dems become a minority party but I find it hard to see how that is worse than where we are now with them. Not like they managed to get much done as the majority (although to be fair with a stunning display of obstruction from Republicans the likes of which this country has never approached before). ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/72 "2010-02-16T21:20:47Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > If things remain this bad next year (19+% unemeployment), I think there may well be calls for impeachment.:eek: :rolleyes: There were calls for impeachment a week after he took office. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/73 "2010-02-16T21:21:29Z")
The thing with Bayh and his little Cerulean Canine crowd that annoys me is, you DON’T vote against your party on procedural votes! I don’t care if Bayh and Nelson and Landrieu and Lieberman want to vote against a health care reform bill. But if you want to call yourself a Democrat, you need to stick with leadership and at least allow it to come to the floor! Vote your conscience on the bill itself, but vote your party on procedurals, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/74 "2010-02-16T21:25:20Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > :rolleyes: > There were calls for impeachment a week after he took office. Hell, there were direct calls for assassination before the election even happened. How many of those Palin rallies included people in the crowd reacting to her Barrow Bene Gesserit _canto-respondu_ crap (“He pals around with terrorists!”) with “Kill him!”? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/75 "2010-02-16T22:42:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Perhaps it means Dems become a minority party but I find it hard to see how that is worse than where we are now with them. Not like they managed to get much done as the majority (although to be fair with a stunning display of obstruction from Republicans the likes of which this country has never approached before). If Democrats aren’t going to make any sweeping changes, the only thing that really concerns me is keeping the Republicans from enacting regressive policies. But with Obama holding the veto pen, all it takes is 33%+1 solid Democratic votes in just one house of Congress to prevent a veto override. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/76 "2010-02-17T00:09:45Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You mistake me for a Democrat apologist. I still find the question of why Bayh retired to be a non-Great Debate; which is why I went with “idle speculation” when I described it. You’re certainly entitled to your view. But given the fact that pretty much every single U.S. political commentary source has devoted at least one story, column, and/or columnist/blogger to the issue, I have to say that I disagree with the weight you’ve given to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/77 "2010-02-17T01:01:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re certainly entitled to your view. But given the fact that pretty much every single U.S. political commentary source has devoted at least one story, column, and/or columnist/blogger to the issue, I have to say that I disagree with the weight you’ve given to the issue. Funny, I haven’t seen you start threads in GD about Shelby’s threatened filibuster, the latest Palin whining, or this administration’s embracing nuclear power, all of which were part of the 24 hour news cycle. Again, feel free to continue to further embrace your inner Reeder/december. Enjoy your “debate”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/78 "2010-02-17T01:44:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Funny, I haven’t seen you start threads in GD about Shelby’s threatened filibuster, the latest Palin whining, or this administration’s embracing nuclear power, all of which were part of the 24 hour news cycle. Again, feel free to continue to further embrace your inner Reeder/december. Enjoy your “debate”. I missed the chance to start a thread about the latest Palin whining, but I did comment in the existing thread: > [@Bricker](#): > > Crude tasteless highly unfunny “humor.” > > But that’s “Family Guy’s” raison d’etre. I think Palin can get some traction, perhaps, out of criticizing a political figure for using “retard,” especially one from the party that’s most susceptible to political correctness, but a TV show that reliably makes 18 out of its 22 minute runtime offensive to someone, somewhere? Forget it. This is absurd. Does that fit your preconception? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/79 "2010-02-17T02:35:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I missed the chance to start a thread about the latest Palin whining, but I did comment in the existing thread: Good for you. I can get you a cookie if you like. > [@Bricker](#): > > Does that fit your preconception? I don’t have preconceptions. I simply comment when you start your Reedecember threads of whatever is the latest anti-Democrat thing and watch as you trail off into irrelevancies. Such is life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110/80 "2010-02-17T03:26:18Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Here’s an alternate theory: Maybe the Dem party pressured him out. That measure of party discipline simply does not exist in the U.S. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buh-bye-bayh/529110.md?page=5)