Building Codes and Enforcement.

[Wednesday_Evening]

Mostly echoing stuff that others have said upthread, but…

It appears that this community development organization does not have authority to issue a violation or collect a fine. They could notify the city, however, who does have the authority to do their own inspection and give you a notice of violation if warranted.

The trash cans are not a building code issue, but may still be a violation. Our city has a similar rule, although it’s not generally enforced. Generally (again, local ordinances vary) buildings are held to the building code in effect at the time the building was constructed. So your stairs may be OK based on that.

If it were me, I would ignore it unless I got a violation from the city. In the meantime, you may want to do some research on how the city deals with violations and fines just in case you do get one. There also may be an opportunity for appeal of the violation. In our city, they cite owners for fines a lot, but if the owner is cooperative, they usually waive the fine. The fine for them is more of a way to get the owner to take action immediately instead of putting it off. But all cities are different - you may want to go visit your local Building Department and get a feel for how vigilant they are about going after this type of stuff.

~Wednesday, board member of a city Construction Board of Appeals.

[FeAudrey]

@Chicago_Faucet

Here is their website:

http://www.dscdo.org/

Say what? These guys are in no way a government agency, and therefore without any authority to enforce building codes.

Here is your actual building code enforcement agency:

http://portal.cleveland-oh.gov/CityofCleveland/Home/Government/CityAgencies/BuildingHousing/CodeEnforcementDivision

DSCDO can rat you out to Cleveland’s Code Enforcement Division, but that’s pretty much the limit of what they can do. Code Enforcement seems mostly to want to get violations corrected, rather than to collect large sums for small problems.

I’d complain about DSCDO to them.

[Orwell]

Very curious. Sounds like a creative marketing operation. Have you not been approached by a contractor “noticing” that your porch steps don’t have railings, and offering to help you out? Talking to your councilman is probably a good idea. If he starts getting more than a couple of calls from concerned citizens, his office will probably look into it.

[Chicago_Faucet]

So, this morning I didn’t have to go into work until late. So, I slept in, and then mowed the lawn for the first time this season. I made a pot of coffee, settled in, and called the Cleveland Division of Building Code Enforcement to get the real scoop on this.

The person who picked up the phone was a very pleasant woman. She asked how she could help, and I explained about the letter that I received from the local community organization. I wanted to know if it was legitimate.

“Yeah, let me get you over to someone about that.” I could almost hear here looking around the room. “Hmmm. Robert is on the phone, so is William.” I could hear her craning her neck. “Oh, Marco is free. Let me get you over to him.”

Marco was a really nice guy. “How can I help you?”

I explained the letter, and I could hear him flipping through huge tomes of codes.

“Let’s see here. According to this, you only need a handrail if the vertical distance between your porch and the ground exceeds 30 inches, or if there are more than three risers. It doesn’t sound like either of those apply to you.”

And they didn’t. I went outside and measured the vertical distance. The maximum distance at any point around my porch is 24 inches. And, I have three risers (steps) leading up to my porch.

When I asked how I should handle this, Marco said to reply back with a letter. Marco even said that I could use him as a reference.

So, I did. I just wrote another reply letter to the community development organization with this information.

The bad news? Yes, Marco confirmed that it is against code for garbage cans to be visible from the street. I’ll just have to store them around the back of my house.

[Flyer]

So. . . .

Are you going to do anything about the attempted fraud, or are you going to roll over and let them get away with harassing your neighborhood?

[Senegoid]

And did you ask, just out of curiosity, about the requirement for porch railings to be added to a historical structure, to about grandfathering older houses that were built before that particular code was established?

[Duckster]

Detroit Shoreway Community Development Organization is leading the way in revitalizing this proud neighborhood. But it is only through the support and inspiration of Detroit Shoreway’s residents, entrepreneurs, and business owners, that this neighborhood is enjoying the fruits of its labor. The members of DSCDO are the backbone of the organization and they help drive the mission and vision of the organization on a daily basis.

http://www.dscdo.org/membership_information.aspx
It’s not a government body. It sounds like a self-appointed, busy body HOA. If they are pretending to be something they are not, think possible fraud.

[Chicago_Faucet]

Something I did forget to mention is that in the second letter I got from them, they mentioned that they have tried four times to get a hold of me. My wife and I work regular schedules, so unless they were coming around at noon on those days, we would have been home. In this latest reply letter, I made sure to include my phone number, so if they truly want to get a hold of me, they have my phone number.

When I first got the first letter, I did consider walking it down to the local police station at the end of my street, but I decided against it. We have a good local police force, but I could see them looking at the letter and saying, “Well, it says that you are violating these codes. So…” They probably would have just told me to write a letter anyway.

I did ask about the historical nature of the house, and mentioned that I don’t think this house ever had a handrail on the front. Marco said that that did not matter. A property cannot be “grandfathered” in due to age. The code is the code.

One thing I just realized. The codes that the letters were referencing were building codes for the state of Ohio, and I called the city of Cleveland to get their codes. I assume that the local city’s building codes trump that of the state. I also just don’t trust that link of building codes that they provided. It doesn’t seem official. Just some generic list of various codes on a website that has the word “law” on it.

I do talk with my neighbors. So, now that the weather is nice, they will be out, and I’ll start mentioning this to them as I see them.

[enipla]

@Duckster

http://www.dscdo.org/membership_information.aspx
It’s not a government body. It sounds like a self-appointed, busy body HOA. If they are pretending to be something they are not, think possible fraud.

Sounds like it to me too.

From their misson statement - Worship: Valuing members of the faith-based community as important partners.

I hope that would not be part of an officail gov statement.

[Omar_Little]

Sounds like this community organization is trying to encourage residents to maintain and upkeep their properties in accordance with local building codes. It doesn’t sound like they have any real enforcement power, but just trying to keep the neighborhood compliant.

Sounds like you figured out that the railing is not necessary, but the trash cans need to handled differently.

So be a good neighbor and put your trash cans out of sight. Other than that, I wouldn’t continue to have angst about it.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Chicago_Faucet

One thing I just realized. The codes that the letters were referencing were building codes for the state of Ohio, and I called the city of Cleveland to get their codes. I assume that the local city’s building codes trump that of the state. I also just don’t trust that link of building codes that they provided. It doesn’t seem official. Just some generic list of various codes on a website that has the word “law” on it.

The state always trumps the city. A city can add additional regulations onto the state’s but can’t contradict them.

[Chefguy]

Ignore them. Garbage cans? Pfft. The city has better things to do than patrol and cite people for exposed garbage cans. Unless rats are holding keggers on a pile of rotting fecal matter, they’re not going to bother with it. Most city governments are reactive organizations. If enough people complain about something, they’ll put it on a list and maybe get to it a year down the road. I would call this so-called agency and tell them to stop harassing you (follow up with a letter and keep a copy); if they continue to send you letters, keep them in case you need to hire an attorney to get them off your back.

[John_Mace]

@Chicago_Faucet

did ask about the historical nature of the house, and mentioned that I don’t think this house ever had a handrail on the front. Marco said that that did not matter. A property cannot be “grandfathered” in due to age. The code is the code.

That’s not really how grandfathering works. The way it works is that they can’t make you bring it up to code unless you are making other modifications to the property or if it somehow poses a public safety risk. Otherwise, you’d be doing work on your house every year to bring it up to code. So yeah, if you were remodeling, they could make you bring it up to code even though it’s a historical structure. But it doesn’t need to be historical to be grandfathered in if you aren’t making any other changes.

[Billdo]

@Chefguy

Ignore them. Garbage cans? Pfft. The city has better things to do than patrol and cite people for exposed garbage cans. Unless rats are holding keggers on a pile of rotting fecal matter, they’re not going to bother with it. Most city governments are reactive organizations. If enough people complain about something, they’ll put it on a list and maybe get to it a year down the road. I would call this so-called agency and tell them to stop harassing you (follow up with a letter and keep a copy); if they continue to send you letters, keep them in case you need to hire an attorney to get them off your back.

Depending on your municipality, this may be very bad advice. New York City, for example, has an enforcement branch of the Department of Sanitation which has agents that go around the City looking for and writing up violations of the Sanitation Code. Violations can range from the serious, like illegal dumping, to the trivial, like dirty sidewalks.

For multiple and repeat violations, the penalties can add up to substantial amounts. I have no doubt that, in addition to keeping the City cleaner and more pleasant for everyone complying with the Sanitation Code, the enforcement agents more than pay for their salaries in the violation penalties that are collected by their efforts.

[Orwell]

@John_Mace

That’s not really how grandfathering works. The way it works is that they can’t make you bring it up to code unless you are making other modifications to the property or if it somehow poses a public safety risk. Otherwise, you’d be doing work on your house every year to bring it up to code. So yeah, if you were remodeling, they could make you bring it up to code even though it’s a historical structure. But it doesn’t need to be historical to be grandfathered in if you aren’t making any other changes.

I agree. Complying with code applies only when constructing or renovating a building, or when changing a use that requires a new permit (say from industrial to retail). Otherwise, you can leave a building/property alone. If you doubt this, take a look around any old neighborhood and look at things that don’t comply with modern codes.

This busybody organization is trying to shame or persuade property owners to make changes to suit their desires. Since they lack the power to force anyone, they are being deceptive by sending out misleading letters and pretending to be part of the municipal government.

Do what you want, and don’t do what you don’t want. You may want to move or enclose your garbage cans, but I certainly wouldn’t do anything about your railings. How many similar houses in your neighborhood lack railings? I’m betting quite a few.

[John_Mace]

@Orwell

I agree. Complying with code applies only when constructing or renovating a building, or when changing a use that requires a new permit (say from industrial to retail). Otherwise, you can leave a building/property alone. If you doubt this, take a look around any old neighborhood and look at things that don’t comply with modern codes.

Further to my post, there are some exceptions. For instance, all homes in CA are required to have smoke detectors and CO detectors. If your home doesn’t have them you are breaking the law if you don’t install them. However… there isn’t actually any enforcement mechanism, so unless you are selling your home or something there is no way for anyone to know whether you’ve done it or not. And… I assume if you don’t, you might have an insurance issue if there is a fire in your house.