# "Bullsh\*t F\*cking ticket. Suck on it" -- Protected speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980 "2002-12-16T00:40:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/1 "2002-12-16T00:40:46Z")
A man from Howell, MI (?) wrote “Bullsh_t F_cking ticket. Suck on it” on the memo line of a check he mailed to the court to pay a traffic fine. He was charged with contempt of court. His attorney, said his client can’t be held in contempt of court because [it violates his First Amendment right](http://www.dailypressandargus.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi%24rec=43942?Front). This sounds bogus to me, but I cannot exactly say why. I do know that you cannot curse a judge in the courtroom, despite the first amendment. Is this protected speech? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/2 "2002-12-16T00:48:36Z")
Well he wasn’t in court :D. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/3 "2002-12-16T02:33:23Z")
Unless the man was in court at the time and personally handed the check to a judge, the most that can be shown is that he had contempt for the system itself, not any particular court. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/4 "2002-12-16T02:47:58Z")
Contempt of court is generally action that obstructs the orderly administration of justice. Disrespect for the bench, manifested in open court, certainly qualifies; disrespect manifested by writing on the memo line of a check is pushing the contempt envelope a bit. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/5 "2002-12-16T03:11:46Z")
I say 100% protected speech. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/6 "2002-12-16T07:36:35Z")
I second \*\* sailor. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/7 "2002-12-16T22:17:38Z")
I say we all write letters to the District Attorney who decided to file this and say “bullsh_t f_cking charge.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/8 "2002-12-16T22:25:09Z")
I’m no moderator, but it seems like we all agree! Is there a debate here? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/9 "2002-12-16T22:32:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > Disrespect manifested by writing on the memo line of a check is pushing the contempt envelope a bit. > > - Rick Since in many small cases we can “appear” for court in writing would that not be considered the same? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/10 "2002-12-16T22:36:01Z")
The Daily Press and Argus link itself keeps timing out, so here’s the AP version of the story. [http://newsobserver.com/24hour/nation/story/676640p-5044654c.html](http://newsobserver.com/24hour/nation/story/676640p-5044654c.html) > [@](#): > > Vulgar check lands man in court > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > > HOWELL, Mich. (AP) - A man who used an obscenity on a check he wrote to pay a traffic fine is facing a contempt of court charge. > > Eric Wilmoth, 26, of Howell was to appear Monday before 53rd District Court Judge John Pikkarainen on the contempt charge. Wilmoth wrote the obscenity on the memo line of a check he mailed to the court to pay a traffic fine. That was within his First Amendment rights, said defense lawyer Ron Plunkett of Brighton. > > “This is America. I think you can say that,” Plunkett told the Livingston County Daily Press & Argus. “Now it’s a different thing when you do it in front of a judge.” > > Plunkett says Wilmoth has not acted disorderly in front of any judge or even been in the presence of one for this case before he was held in contempt. > > It is unknown how Pikkarainen discovered the check. His secretary said the judge would not comment because the case is pending. > > When checks to pay traffic fines are mailed to the Livingston County Courts, they can go through a number of different hands, including the 53rd District Court administrator and the county clerk’s office, according to district court Deputy Clerk Diane Livingston. > > Any check drawing attention can be sent to the court administrator or the court’s chief judge - Pikkarainen. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/11 "2002-12-16T22:45:43Z")
I’m officially scared. I routinely write “F\*\*\* YOU” on the “Memo” line of any checks I write for parking tickets. Really, no kidding. If this can really be some form of offense, I’m stopping ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/12 "2002-12-16T22:57:43Z")
It sounds like a judicial power trip to me. I hope it gets struck down, and if necessary, I’d love to see it go to a high court. (You know what I mean) ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/13 "2002-12-16T23:03:35Z")
Sounds like some judge got his panties in a wad and is overstepping his bounds. > [@](#): > > It is unknown how Pikkarainen discovered the check. His secretary said the judge would not comment because the case is pending. Too bad, because I’d like to know. Did some officious paper-pusher decide that the judge should know about this and show him? I somehow doubt the judge is opening and processing all of the mail for that district. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/14 "2002-12-16T23:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\*Did some officious paper-pusher decide that the judge should know about this and show him? I somehow doubt the judge is opening and processing all of the mail for that district. \*\* That sounds like it might be the central issue to me… who normally sees the checks that pay for the tickets. Secretaries, clerks, or accountants, I would guess. I certainly would not expect a judge to be examining payments of fines in open court. I’m no lawyer, though, so I don’t know. Does it make a difference, who the check is meant for? Do all documents (including fine payments) submitted to the legal office have to follow the rules of the courtroom? I was under the impression that contempt rules only apply when one is in the courtroom and addressing the judge. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/15 "2002-12-16T23:30:21Z")
Isn’t the memo line of a check supposed to be a note from me to myself regarding the purpose of the check? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/16 "2002-12-16T23:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by drachillix \* > \*\*Since in many small cases we can “appear” for court in writing would that not be considered the same? \*\* I don’t think so. Contempt is willful disobedience or open disrespect of the orders, authority, or dignity of a court or judge acting in a judicial capacity by disruptive language or conduct or by failure to obey the court’s orders. It’s unclear how language written on a ticket may be a cause of disruption. Unlike a proceeding for civil contempt, which is typically remedial and for the benefit of a party injured by a failure to comply with the judicial order, the focus of a proceeding for a criminal contempt is to enforce the dignity of the court itself. But this traditional power arises from the need for a court to properly administer the law and to enable courts to enforce their orders, judgments and decrees. I’m applying Virginia law in the above, admittedly, but in general the same principle should apply anywhere. I would think that the court would have to show how the conduct interfered with the orderly administration of justice. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/17 "2002-12-16T23:55:58Z")
**cmk:** _I’m officially scared. I routinely write "F_\*\* YOU" on the “Memo” line of any checks I write for parking tickets. Really, no kidding.\* :eek: **Chaim** , you do?!? I can’t believe that! You honestly write obscenities on items that some poor secretaries and bank clerks—who had absolutely nothing to do with awarding you the ticket—are going to have to read in the course of their jobs? Mercy on us, why don’t you just write “FUCK YOU” on your windshield, so the ticketing cop will see it? Writing obscenities on checks for fines may be protected speech—I certainly think it ought to be—but that doesn’t mean it isn’t really mean and low class. (You were kidding, right **Chaim**? Man, I just can’t believe that.) ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/18 "2002-12-17T00:09:00Z")
Sorry, Kimstu, it’s true. I suppose you’re right that the folks who will see it aren’t the ones who actually wrote the darned thing, but I hate the whole Parking Violations Bureau, and wouldn’t be upset to see it disappear overnight, including the low-level peons who merely slice open the checks and deposit them. Do you know that in New York City, Parking Violations is part of the “Division of Finance”? Income from parking violations is a fixed item in the city budget. Screw that, I thought we citizens had a presumption of innocence. I’m all for enforcing parking rules that make sense, and I won’t complain when I realize that I owe for having violated a rule I should have known was there (even if it is a rule I disagree with), but the idea of vulturous officers looking for violators not to “serve and protect” but to finance…that rubs me wrong. And I find every cog in that rotten machine contemptible. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/19 "2002-12-17T00:28:16Z")
**cmk:** \*Do you know that in New York City, Parking Violations is part of the “Division of Finance”? \* Yup, and in many other cities as well. I sympathize with your anger at the system, but nevertheless—oh well, I said it once already, so never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980/20 "2002-12-17T00:31:15Z")
I also am officially shocked that Chaim writes obscenities on his checks. Chaim, I never woulda thunk it. This is like seeing Polycarp flip someone off in traffic. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullsh-t-f-cking-ticket-suck-on-it-protected-speech/142980.md?page=2)