# Bullshit modding in the IMHO avatar thread (yeah, you knew it was coming) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393 "2011-08-03T23:23:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/81 "2011-08-04T17:13:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Oakminster** tested and found out that there is a 100 character limit to thread titles. For the purposes of adding Mod Notes to titles, is this going to work with most thread titles? I think it would be a rare 100-character title that couldn’t be edited to 80 or so characters and retain most of it’s meaning. It comes down to whether the mods like the idea, and are prepared to do the small amount of extra work it would take to do this. I also think that most mod notes wouldn’t need to be flagged like this - a note saying “stop insulting people here, take it to the Pit”, for example, is a reminder of general board rules. It’s only in cases where there’s a specific limitation on what should be said in a particular thread that it would be needed. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/82 "2011-08-04T17:14:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Oakminster** tested and found out that there is a 100 character limit to thread titles. For the purposes of adding Mod Notes to titles, is this going to work with most thread titles? Jesus, Czarcasm, why not? You’re a smart guy, figure out a way to make it work. MOD NOTE: Post XX That’s, what, 17 characters? I think you could figure out a way to shorten most thread titles enough to squeeze that in at the end. Or, don’t make up random rules. Seriously, if modding polls is giving you too much trouble, why don’t we just allow polls in GD, and that way the serious subjects can have polls, too. That way you don’t have to moderate debates, you can just punt it over to GD and let those guys deal with it. It doesn’t have to be so complicated. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/83 "2011-08-04T17:17:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Oakminster** tested and found out that there is a 100 character limit to thread titles. For the purposes of adding Mod Notes to titles, is this going to work with most thread titles? Doesn’t matter. In most cases, it won’t even be an issue. If it ever is, it can be worked around easily enough. Now, can we get those unjust Warnings taken off of our boardmates’ records? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/84 "2011-08-04T17:22:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think there’s a lot of childish whining going on here. > \ I think this is laughably ridiculous. What is laughingly ridiculous is losing sight of the fact that this is a message board and we all come here to share our thoughts. It’s practically the raison d’être for this place’s existence. Having a mod restrict that to shut down opinions contrary to his own is very bad policy. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/85 "2011-08-04T17:24:59Z")
Look again to see what I referred to as “laughably ridiculous.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/86 "2011-08-04T17:25:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I suggested that, yes. I understand the restriction on length, although I’d not thought of that when I wrote it. [Mod Note In OP] is 16 characters, and could probably be added to most titles without causing too many problems, although I’m sure some people would complain if you edited their title to fit that in. or possibly _Mod Note-Post \_\__? edited to add: posted before seeing **Sarahfeena’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/87 "2011-08-04T17:33:43Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > You have been wrong on every single point regarding that thread so far, from letting the OP determine the rules of the thread to changing the normal poll commentary procedure in mid-thread, from handing out ridiculous warnings to defending your actions here. I suspect he still hasn’t answered my question (4th time with this post) to avoid being more askew. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/88 "2011-08-04T17:36:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Neither in the title, nor in the OP, was there any clarifications or restrictions, and yet repeatedly those who supported optional avatars posted that the poll was for optional avatars, and some of them said it repeatedly(I stopped counting at 13 such “reminders”). I posted one of those “reminders” prior to the warnings being given out and it was in _direct response_ to someone who apparently didn’t read the rest of the thread and made the incorrect assumption that viewing would not be optional. I was correcting someone who was mistaken and needed to be informed of this. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/89 "2011-08-04T17:37:14Z")
Incidentally **Czarcasm** , why have you vanished from the thread in question? There have been several additional posts that violate your ridiculous rule and even more ridiculous enforcement. Is it too much to ask that you moderate fairly instead of vengefully and/or arbitrarily? Would it be fair to take your non-action as a concession that you were way out of line? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/90 "2011-08-04T17:43:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Look again to see what I referred to as “laughably ridiculous.” I understood. My response goes to the bigger point of not seeing mod’s notes as well. But you’ve not addressed the first point. This is a message board community, we come here to share our comments and opinions. How is limiting discourse (racism, kiddie-porn, James Randi, etc excepted) helpful to this purpose? _“It was similar to another thread in another forum”_? So what? We’re adults here, I think we can work our way through the treacherous labyrinth of similar threads… in fact it happens all the time. No, in this case I think it’s clear the mod’s personal feelings got in the way. It was a bad call. [bruce dern/longhair] Pride… stubborn pride. [bd/l] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/91 "2011-08-04T17:44:08Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I posted one of those “reminders” prior to the warnings being given out and it was in _direct response_ to someone who apparently didn’t read the rest of the thread and made the incorrect assumption that viewing would not be optional. I was correcting someone who was mistaken and needed to be informed of this. Read the first and third post, then tell me who was making an incorrect assumption about the poll. The poll was only a yes or no vote about avatars in general, _not_ about the particular type of avatar that was being promoted in the ATMB thread. The constant “corrections” were unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/92 "2011-08-04T17:45:16Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > I understood. My response goes to the bigger point of not seeing mod’s notes as well. But you’ve not addressed the first point. Why have you quoted and responded to my point with a comment on a point that I’ve chosen not to address? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/93 "2011-08-04T17:58:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Read the first and third post, then tell me who was making an incorrect assumption about the poll. The poll was only a yes or no vote about avatars in general, _not_ about the particular type of avatar that was being promoted in the ATMB thread. The constant “corrections” were unnecessary. **Czarcasm** - Why are you… A) …no longer enforcing your own rules? B) …and not answeing the question I’ve now asked 5 times: how did my clarification run afoul of your rule? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/94 "2011-08-04T18:01:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Why have you quoted and responded to my point with a comment on a point that I’ve chosen not to address? Well there are a few opinions in this thread that could considered “childish whining” if you didn’t agree with them. I assumed you were including them all in your remark. However, if I’ve misconstrued the first sentence of that post and you weren’t including them, I withdraw my posts directed at you and offer an apology. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/95 "2011-08-04T18:07:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The problem is you are way too anal about debates in IMHO. > > The forum description reads: > \* > “What’s your favorite …?” For frank exchanges of views on less-than-cosmic topics. This is also the place for polling.\* > > A “frank exchange of views” is, essentially, a debate…but the forum is meant for less “weighty” subjects. Like whether we should have avatars instead of whether morality is absolute or relative. > > You need to either lighten the hell up, or change the forum description. > > In this particular instance, you should not have issued the instruction you did. It was heavy handed and entirely unnecessary. You followed that poor decision with a rash of warnings enforcing the poor instruction, apparently on the theory that “right or wrong, thou shalt obey me”. That’s just flat out poor moderation all the way around. I agree with every word of this. This isn’t the first time **Czarcasm** has randomly gotten a bee in his bonnet about people “debating” in IMHO, particularly in poll threads. This thread has focused on the enforcement aspect, but I feel the far more serious issue is the poor judgment in the decision to issue moderator instructions in the first place. Avatars are _clearly_ a topic that gets **Czarcasm** worked up for some reason ([cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=580676)), I think he let his personal issues drive him into taking action when it was neither necessary nor desirable. Let people discuss each other’s posts. If a fight breaks out, _then_ tell the parties to knock it off / move the thread to the Pit. If the topic moves far afield into larger, more abstract discussions, tell the parties to take that side discussion to GD / move the thread to GD. Preemptively clamping down on the most basic interaction between posters for fear that a thread may mirror another or turn into a debate is terrible moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/96 "2011-08-04T18:13:49Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > This thread has focused on the enforcement aspect, but I feel the far more serious issue is the poor judgment in the decision to issue moderator instructions in the first place. I absolutely agree, but I’m not sure it’s more serious than selective and inconsistent enforcement. People are still making posts similar to the ones 4 of us were warned for yesterday, yet have befallen no similar actions. Which is fine if it’s an admission of improper moderation, but needs to result in rescinded warnings. It’s rather telling **Czarcasm** still hasn’t responded to repeated requests for an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/97 "2011-08-04T18:17:54Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I absolutely agree, but I’m not sure it’s more serious than selective and inconsistent enforcement. People are still making posts similar to the ones 4 of us were warned for yesterday, yet have befallen no similar actions. Which is fine if it’s an admission of improper moderation, but needs to result in rescinded warnings. > > It’s rather telling **Czarcasm** still hasn’t responded to repeated requests for an explanation. I was just hoping that **Czarcasm** would wake up this morning, have a cup of coffee, and say, “Ohhh… shit. I need to go fix that!” Evidently not. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/98 "2011-08-04T18:18:26Z")
I would submit that Rachellelogram’s _modus operandi_ is a natural and reasonable way to proceed for a lot of people. It therefore does not seem reasonable to me to expect people to read the whole thread before posting. Therefore Czarcasm’s chosen method of advertising his ruling seems guaranteed to avoid the attention of a significant fraction of the people who voted in the poll. I don’t think this is unique to this poll, either. Personally, I would ask Czarcasm to reconsider the definition of “debating.” If a person votes in a poll, makes a single post explaining their vote and never replies to any comment, they are not “debating” and should not be sanctioned if debating is against the rules (or, as in this case, a ruling.) People who attempt to engage the voter in a discussion should be fair game, as should the voter if they return and reply or engage others in discussion. The other thing that comes out of this is that it is obvious that voters are _guaranteed_ to read only one post, and that is the opening post. Moderators can edit other poster’s posts. Taking those two things together suggests a course of action far superior to editing the title of the thread. The mod instruction should be edited into the opening post, preferably in a distinctive font, colour, size or combination of attributes, and signed by the Mod in question. In that way, everyone can be guaranteed to read the instruction. That assumes, of course, that discussing ideas is out of place in a forum designed for the expression of opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/99 "2011-08-04T18:22:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > or possibly _Mod Note-Post \_\__? > > edited to add: posted before seeing **Sarahfeena’s** post. Reading the thread all the way through first is a bitch, ain’t it. Anyway, it’s dumb to say that you can’t argue in a thread in IMHO. If you think it’s getting too angry, then kick it over to the pit. If that ends the poll, so what? Qin’s had how many polls shut down because mods didn’t like some aspect of them. This all goes back to my contention that mods should move threads and get the hell out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393/100 "2011-08-04T18:29:19Z")
**Czarcasm,** You gotta pair! Thanks for sticking with this post and defending yourself. Shows fortitude and integrity. I don’t think I wanna be a Mod! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bullshit-modding-in-the-imho-avatar-thread-yeah-you-knew-it-was-coming/591393.md?page=6)