# "Bully List" at High School **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 11, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962 "2019-03-11T17:59:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/61 "2019-03-13T20:02:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Should a student be punished if he believes another student is gay? Only if he says it? Writes it? > > This anti-bullying fad has gone way too far. Let’s say I work in an office and there are women there. Let’s also say that one of these ladies walks by and my lecherous mind says “boy, she’s hot, I’d like to see her naked” Should I be punished for thinking that? How about if I say it, or write it where the woman can see it? Feel free to have hateful thoughts, but you should be very scared of the fallout if you let those thoughts exit your head. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/62 "2019-03-13T20:10:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > _We_ are adults. A person has to be 18 to register for an account here? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/63 "2019-03-13T20:15:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > A person has to be 18 to register for an account here? We are _mostly_ adults and anyone who isn’t _is not being forced to be here!_ ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/64 "2019-03-13T20:19:57Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Let’s say I work in an office and there are women there. Let’s also say that one of these ladies walks by and my lecherous mind says “boy, she’s hot, I’d like to see her naked” > > Should I be punished for thinking that? How about if I say it, or write it where the woman can see it? > > Feel free to have hateful thoughts, but you should be very scared of the fallout if you let those thoughts exit your head. The workplace is a bad analogy. You are there on a consensual contractual basis and your free speech is trumped by the workplace rules. I can’t work for Coke and say “Drink Pepsi!” even though that statement is not offensive, illegal, or improper in any way. Caselaw has said that schools have a right to enact rules for an orderly school, but at the same time children don’t check all rights at the front door. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/65 "2019-03-13T20:22:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree that the last part of that sentence is a threat and not protected speech. But I can’t say that Heather is a fucking bitch, for example? That is actionable? Again, I’m not saying it is a good thing to do or not a shitty thing to do, but to take action against someone for saying that? > > I mean, we do that kind of stuff on this very message board in the Pit. Think, sure. Say in the privacy of your home, why not? Writing it down? Why did you do that? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/66 "2019-03-13T20:36:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Would you tolerate that malicious gossip in the workplace? If not, why should children not be afforded the same consideration with regards to their environment? There’s no malicious gossip. Writing in my journal or saying to my gf: “My boss is incompetent and a jerk, I hate him” isn’t malicious gossip at the workplace. That’s pretty much the equivalent of what these kids did. It seems that we’re talking here about two kids (or possibly 3) making a private list of people they don’t like (or possibly they think are gay). And for that, they’re “monsters”, should be prevented from receiving a superior education, are putting the live of people at risk, and their parents should pay enormous fines for being such failures at parenting. That’s absolutely complete hyperbole. Even if someone was looking at the list and decided to kill one of the kids listed, that would absolutely not be the fault of the children who wrote it. Especially since they didn’t even make this list public. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/67 "2019-03-13T20:49:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And that position is absolutely horrible to anyone who has ever been bullied. Your position is that they deserve literally no punishment at all! Indeed they don’t. On the other hand, the person who snooped at their phone and made public their private stuff definitely should (unless he was allowed to do so). > [@](#): > > That’s insane. Sure, we could debate what is and is not an appropriate punishment. But that is not what you are doing. You for some reason seem to think that bullies would somehow be embarrassed that their llist got out. No one cares about being caught if there is no punishment. They aren’t bullies. As far as I can tell, they did absolutely nothing to the people on their list. You aren’t a bully just because you have bad thoughts about someone. > [@](#): > > And, FYI, it wasn’t “suddenly a bullying list.” It was a bullying list before it was leaked. As described, it contains a their social media accounts and descriptions of how horrible they are. That’s a quick, easy list for cyberbullying. It’s stalkerish, honestly. It wasn’t a “bullying list”. It was a “people I don’t like” (and why) list. It’s as much bullying as sharing your opinion of Trump with friends is harassing the president. > [@](#): > > And the real list has social media accounts. It has contact information. That’s as if the above list had phone numbers on it. People are recognized by their handles nowadays. And? Still not bullying if you do nothing to the supposed victims. As far as I can tell, what they are accused of is a thought crime. > [@](#): > > I can’t say exactly what the kids deserve for this. I don’t know the severity of the list, or anything about how these kids have behaved in the past. I can say for sure, though, that they deserve more than “no punishment” and “being embarrassed.” So, they should be punished for privately expressing opinions? I hope we aren’t going to apply the same principles to adults anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/68 "2019-03-13T20:53:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Because in real life if people are harassing you at work they can be terminated. And that’s to protect adults who have adult emotional maturity. Making sure school is safe for children is not coddling. It’s what responsible adults do in order to ensure kids can learn and grow. > > I have children and I wouldn’t tolerate sending them to an environment where I knew that they were being abused and couldn’t do anything about it. Except that, at least according to the second link, they didn’t harass anybody and didn’t abuse anybody. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/69 "2019-03-13T21:07:28Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > So, what does it say about the character of the students who compiled the list? Who sits down and compiles a list of potentially gay students,? What purpose does this serve? > > Leaked or not, this is unacceptable behaviour and needs to be dealt with. Having an unlikable character isn’t a valid cause for punishment. If it were, there are a lot of people I know who would be rotting in jail. And I would argue that coming from high-school age kids, it says pretty much nothing about their character. And simply having this story published all around the place in our current world is potentially vastly more damaging for the kids who wrote the list than having your name on a private list of gays at the school is (since the damage caused by the latter is zero). I hope mainly that their names will never be leaked. People seem outraged by their behavior and horribly worried about the kids on the list, but personally I think that it’s the kids who wrote the list whose safety is at risk. And I’m frightened by the mob mentality I see here by adults against two high school kids who simply wrote privately something judged distasteful and who are almost accused of being would-be murderers who should suffer harshly along with their family. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/70 "2019-03-13T21:16:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Except that, at least according to the second link, they didn’t harass anybody and didn’t abuse anybody. I guess you missed the part where some kids on the list are getting anonymous messages to kill themselves. Not necessarily from the kids who made the list, but still, if they hadn’t made the list those other kids wouldn’t be receiving messages. Whatever happened to, “Nothing’s private on the internet”? This isn’t a free speech issue, but even if it were, it wouldn’t absolve them of consequences. This is also in Canada so they may handle things differently than we would in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/71 "2019-03-13T21:16:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Except that, at least according to the second link, they didn’t harass anybody and didn’t abuse anybody. So far 4 current students at the school have posted to [the reddit thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ayjqme/three_eric_hamber_grade_12_students_suspended/) mentioned by the OP, including this one: > [@](#): > > Ive seen the list and in reality, this article is heavily exaggerated. It is essentially just a list of 1-100 with random peoples names and is not written in any meaningful tone. A majority of the people are unidentifiable with just descriptions such as “grumpy girl” Unfortunately spreading it was not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/72 "2019-03-13T21:24:19Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Whatever happened to, “Nothing’s private on the internet”? This isn’t a free speech issue It is _absolutely_ a free speech issue. As for “nothing is private on the internet”, if the news article is correct these people didn’t publish the list in an open access forum, they were sharing a document that someone else accessed while snooping on their phone. This is more akin to the [the fappening](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICloud_leaks_of_celebrity_photos)–and I seriously doubt that you blame the actresses who had their photos linked for the photos leaking by saying to them that nothing is private on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/73 "2019-03-13T21:26:56Z")
> [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](#): > > The rights to your private opinions stops where it endangers anyones safety. By making an electonically sharable document on a smart phone you are already playing fast and loose with sharability. You realize what what you say here means? That anything written or recorded that can possibly, if it is read by the wrong person, lead this person, even indirectly to commit a nefarious action, is problematic. For instance, criticizing Trump in a mail is a problem because someone could hijack my mail account, read the mail, and decide to murder Trump. Taking a picture of the nearby mosque is a problem because someone could steal my phone, see the picture, identify someone as Muslim, and decide to beat him up. Keeping my nieces marriage invitation on my computer is a problem because someone could access it and harass them (they’re gay). And so on… What you seem as problematic could only be avoided by punishing even the most basic form of expression, like expressing privately an opinion or even giving privately an information. Only the most extreme forms of totalitarianism could solve this supposed problem. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/74 "2019-03-13T21:38:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > _We_ are adults. Yeah. The pit and malicious gossipers and this thread even show how so-called adults behave. Why expect better from children? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/75 "2019-03-13T21:42:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > A person has to be 18 to register for an account here? No, 13. Some of the people who act like a child on this board actual could be. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/76 "2019-03-13T21:42:44Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I guess you missed the part where some kids on the list are getting anonymous messages to kill themselves. Not necessarily from the kids who made the list, but still, if they hadn’t made the list those other kids wouldn’t be receiving messages. > > Whatever happened to, “Nothing’s private on the internet”? This isn’t a free speech issue, but even if it were, it wouldn’t absolve them of consequences. This is also in Canada so they may handle things differently than we would in the US. How are they responsible for these threats? And why aren’t you rather accusing people who made the list public instead? And people reproducing it all over the place? It’s absolutely a problem of free speech. Once again, should you refrain from writing anything negative about anybody because it could lead someone else to do something nefarious? Are you considering the possible indirect consequences of everything you write, even privately, in the case someone would make public your communications, and a third person would be influenced by it it and do something illegal? You think you should suffer consequences in such a case? I’m absolutely convinced that you wouldn’t consider yourself responsible, not even for an instant, and you would never accept that you should suffer consequences for it. I’m convinced that you would never apply to yourself the concept of responsibility you want to apply to these kids. Who knows if someone isn’t going to read your post, be convinced that these kids should indeed pay for what they have done, and murder them? Tell me how responsible you would feel you are if it happened and what kind of punishment you would deserve for causing the death of two kids? How irresponsible can you be, really, and shouldn’t you follow your own principles and stop communicating on this topic to avoid any terrible consequence? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/77 "2019-03-13T21:52:58Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m convinced that you would never apply to yourself the concept of responsibility you want to apply to these kids. Who knows if someone isn’t going to read your post, be convinced that these kids should indeed pay for what they have done, and murder them? Tell me how responsible you would feel you are if it happened and what kind of punishment you would deserve for causing the death of two kids? How irresponsible can you be, really, and shouldn’t you follow your own principles and stop communicating on this topic to avoid any terrible consequence? Well said, and a very important point. If I say something bad about person X, and person Y, who is a raving lunatic overhears it and decides to harm person X, why am I responsible for the actions of person Y? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/78 "2019-03-13T21:54:20Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > This is also in Canada so they may handle things differently than we would in the US. Also, I’m French, so free speech is likely more limited here than it is in Canada, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/79 "2019-03-13T22:12:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > So far 4 current students at the school have posted to [the reddit thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ayjqme/three_eric_hamber_grade_12_students_suspended/) mentioned by the OP, including this one: My takeaway from looking at that thread is confirmation it was probably irresponsible for the media to be reporting this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962/80 "2019-03-13T22:16:26Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > So, what does it say about the character of the students who compiled the list? > > Who sits down and compiles a list of potentially gay students,? What purpose does this serve? Someone interested in same sex relationships? > [@Leaffan](#): > > Leaked or not, this is unacceptable behaviour and needs to be dealt with. Why? What specifically in unacceptable about it? The assumption with the title of the thread is that they bullied someone or intended to bully someone. The act of bullying is wrong. Discussing plans to carry it out would be wrong. Inciting others to do it would be wrong. the act of making a list does none of that by itself. There has to be motive. There very well may be such motive. When that’s established, then and only then should action be taken. The thread was started by someone who is worried there is a problem. Feeding those fears isn’t helpful. I think working through them in a rational manner will help to determine what is or is not a problem and then move on to the best way to address it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bully-list-at-high-school/830962.md?page=5)