The big difference between paying a professional athlete to fight and a bum to fight is the fact that the former is a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE!! They are trained to fight. They know how to defend themselves in a fight and know what they’re doing (for the most part). Boxing is a boxer’s way of life. He trains for the fight, he gets paid for the fight. he’s an entertainer. It’s violent entertainment, yes, but that’s what he’s dedicated his life to.
A bum on the other hand, does not go through several hours a day, several days a week in preparation for someone saying “HEy, we’ll pay you five bucks to stick you in a shopping cart and throw you down a flight of stairs” (an actual “stunt” on the video). If someone offered you two dollars to fight one of your friends till you were both beaten and bloody, I’d like to think you’d say no. I know I sure as hell would. Why? Because I’m not a trained fighter, and for the amount of physical harm the event would incur on me nad the other person, I can do without the two bucks. I have a job, I’m sure my livelihood doesn’t depend on the handouts of stupid assfucks (my boss not included). Bums may not have that option. In fact, I’m pretty sure they don’t.
I originally mad a post about this video when I first heard of it months ago because I find it disgusting. The “filmmakers” took advantage of these bums. Sure the bums went along with it…they were getting paid enough to buy food, they were getting attention, and to some, they were “famous.” But they’re not happy about it now, and eventually, the people making this shit wanted them to start filming sex acts on tape. Now how is that different than someone pimping out a young runnaway girl out on the streets? Sure, she consents to it, but she’s got no place to live, very little money, she doesn’t know anyone, and look…here comes someone offering to look after her, give her money, and help her find a place to live. It’s exploitation. Just because these bums happen to be old, doesn’t make it right. It’s sick, it’s degrading, and I hope all four of these guys get thrown away for a very long time.
Okay, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Unless you’re just invoking petty class-warfare ideas.
I better way of saying it would be that some people don’t choose anything. Consequently they end up at the bottom of society. And I don’t feel its anyone’s fault but they’re own.
I guess I should say that we agree to disagree. But I stand by everything I’ve said.
I said that it can’t be proven one way or the other because of a lack of any real, hard, quantitative evidence. Its truely a great debate. I back my view just on common sense.
** Derleth**
Say I am in the vinyl siding business, and I get an elderly, possibly senile, person to agree to let me put siding on their house for $100,000 when the fair market value is only $3,000. Should I be charged with a crime, or am I just providing work?
I am all for the freedom of contract, but exploiting people that may not be capable of consenting is not ok. I hope these guys are convicted, and sentanced to time served. I don’t think they need to be in jail, but their conduct was, IMO, criminal.
p.s. your link is no longer good, but I have read of the case on other sites.
I hate to bump such an ugly thread. But, I said I would report back so here I am.
This was one very intertaining movie. Anybody who likes Jackass would be a huge fan of this. I am not usually into low-brow comedy (south park, beavis/buthead, etc) but I was laughing out loud the whole time through this one.
PS: I would have found this equally intertaining if the “actors” were not homeless. (Jackass is the same stuff, and they aren’t homeless.)
Rhum Runner that’s quite different because you are entering into a contract with someone who isn’t fit to enter contracts. For the situation to be the same you have to say that bums are lacking the capacity of adults to enter into contracts. If that is the case why shouldn’t they be rounded up and put in care centers? After all we wouldn’t let packs of infants roam the streets uncared for.
What I find interesting is that there are shows on MTV, besides Jackass, that involve giving apparently normal people a bit of money to do disgusting or deamening things. The thing is they clearly don’t need the money! They are being more taken advantage of than the bums. The power of the camera has clouded what little judgement they may have. Yet shows like this aren’t targeted. This is because, while they are in the same genre, they have the backing of a powerful corporate entity. To appear as a champion of decency you have to go after shows like Jackass, and things like boxing, but since they have backing and varying amounts of cultural inertia on their side you need to go after the smaller providers.
The Tim Many people are lacking the capacity to enter into legitimate contracts. It has nothing to do with being an infant or being rounded up. The ability to enter into a contract is not a prerequisite for not being institutionalized.
I think my analogy is a good one. The producers were clearly exploiting their special knowledge of the bums particular vulnerability just as surely as the vinyl-siding salesman who targets the elderly.
Legislation should probably (and might, possibly) exist to restrict the circumstances under which you can employ people to hit each other even on a mutually voluntary basis. I do not see any reason (or excuse) for making laws of this nature that would distinguish between homeless folks and other people.
Fair enough Rhum Runner I think I missed the point of what you were saying when I first read it. My response was based on the assumption that if bum’s can’t enter into conracts for bum fights how can they be employed in other ways? I mean isn’t any job you offer them exploitative if it is something someone else doesn’t want to do, or at least doesn’t want to do for that much money? This I’m fairly sure has nothing to do with the thread or your post and is just an example of my inability to curb tangental thoughts.
That said I don’t think that bums are any more likely than normal people to do stupid things for money. The appeal of bumfights is that you have a funny name and a special way to market regular people wailing on eachother. If paying two people who aren’t bums and aren’t boxers to fight or do something else stupid is fine then paying bums to do the same is as well. There may be specific issues with regard to pay and other employee protection stuff but I don’t see how being a bum makes you in need of special legal protection with regards to people enticing you into doing dumb things for money in front of a camera. Yes they should get the same legal protection that any other person does if they agree to do it but they don’t need additional legal protection. If as AHunter3 suggests laws are in place to restrict me from paying people to fight then my bum fights are illegal if I don’t follow the proper guidelines. That’s perfectly fair.
Now I will admit it strikes me as somewhat sick to pay people who really need money to do unpleasant things instead of helping them better their lot in life. I doubt these videos or the money from them help the bums in the long term. I don’t think the videos are, or really should be, criminal but I also don’t think they are moral.
