# Bump stocks intended ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025 "2017-10-05T14:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/41 "2017-10-05T16:13:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Why do you think Obama wasn’t personally aware of this matter? I think it’s more likely that Obama didn’t have any idea what it was that the BATFE was describing to him. Or not. Because there’s no way the President can micro-manage the government to that extent. Unless the BATFE made him aware of that specific issue. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/42 "2017-10-05T16:18:21Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Just as silly. [Jail him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KCI5wd2b34)! Why not simply declare unilateral victory now? Save us all a lot of time and energy in trying to debate your disingenuous and deliberately obtuse arguments. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/43 "2017-10-05T16:18:44Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I just put that in so you don’t blame the evil Republicans for bump stocks. Not relevant to the OP though. > > Back to the OP - why would you “ban” something anyone can make, at home, not requiring that much effort or any special materials? No, it wouldn’t be as sleek as the one bought from [slidefire.com](http://slidefire.com), but it still would increase the rate of fire. The device in question allows a firearm to fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger. That is already regulated. Why Obama’s BATFE chose to allow such a modification is bizarre. But the bump stock is legal because Obama’s BATFE allowed it. Considering LV event, and the public/legislative awareness it’s created, I can’t see how the BATFE won’t readdress this issue. I also expect bi-partisan support in Congress to regulate any modification that allows more than one round to be fired with a single pull of the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/44 "2017-10-05T16:19:53Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > … > Anyways, this is all to say that two boards and a pipe, by themselves might be nothing, but if ‘bump stocks’ are illegal, and you’re found with two boards and a pipe setup in such a way that can turn a semiautomatic weapon in a fully automatic one, in your gun case, you’re probably going to get a ticket for it. I propose a trade. Gun owners will have to license bump stocks like supressors and short-barrel rifles. In exchange, the ATF gives up It’s legal theory of ‘constructive possession’. Everyone on board with that? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/45 "2017-10-05T16:20:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Because there’s no way the President can micro-manage the government to that extent. Unless the BATFE made him aware of that specific issue. (underline added) “Unless”? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/46 "2017-10-05T16:21:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The device in question allows a firearm to fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger. That is already regulated. Why Obama’s BATFE chose to allow such a modification is bizarre. But the bump stock is legal because Obama’s BATFE allowed it. > > Considering LV event, and the public/legislative awareness it’s created, I can’t see how the BATFE won’t readdress this issue. I also expect bi-partisan support in Congress to regulate any modification that allows more than one round to be fired with a single pull of the trigger. As I said, since it’s a bone to be thrown to gun grabbers that gives them a sense of accomplishment while being completely ineffective, I am all for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/47 "2017-10-05T16:21:34Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Illegal to own? > > [https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6445/6445p.pdf](https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6445/6445p.pdf) > > "The drug paraphernalia statute, U.S. Code Title 21 Section 863, makes it “unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale drug paraphernalia; to use the mails or any other facility of interstate commerce to transport drug paraphernalia; or to import or export drug paraphernalia.” > > Apparently owning it is not illegal. At the Federal level. Plenty of states have laws against drug paraphernalia. All of them, probably. But please, don’t stop digging yourself into a ridiculous hole in which you assert that everyone can carry crack pipes and be in no legal jeopardy. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/48 "2017-10-05T16:22:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > “Unless”? What part of “unless” do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/49 "2017-10-05T16:22:52Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Just as silly. [Jail him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KCI5wd2b34)! You asked for an example and I gave one. If you want to move the goalposts, feel free, but it’s quite clear that ease of construction doesn’t have any bearing on whether something is legal or not. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/50 "2017-10-05T16:23:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I propose a trade. Gun owners will have to license bump stocks like supressors and short-barrel rifles. In exchange, the ATF gives up It’s legal theory of ‘constructive possession’. Everyone on board with that? No compromise is needed here. I don’t even think licensing of bump stocks is advisable: there’s no good use for them, unlike a case I can see being made for suppressors or short-barreled rifles. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/51 "2017-10-05T16:24:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > At the Federal level. Plenty of states have laws against drug paraphernalia. > **[If Drug Paraphernalia is Illegal, how do Head Shops Legally Operate? |...](https://www.mattmlaw.com/blog/2013/08/if-drug-paraphernalia-is-illegal-how-do-head-shops-legally-operate/)** > > As a criminal defense attorney in a bustling college town, I am often asked how State College's head shops and mom and pop ... Drug Paraphernalia “Items sold in head shops only become drug paraphernalia after people leave the store and employ them in an illegal manner. Pursuant to 35 Pa.C.S.A. § 780-113(a)(32) of the Pennsylvania Drug Device and Cosmetic Act, drug paraphernalia is defined as a device, the purpose of which is to plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, re-pack, store, contain, conceal, inject, ingest, inhale or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance. **Thus, the items really do not become “drug paraphernalia,” unless and until there is some tangible proof that one planned to use said item in a manner, which violates the Drug Device and Cosmetic Act. That tangible proof is usually the presence of illegal drugs with the paraphernalia, or THC laced resin on smoking devices.** ” So - quite legal to own. Just don’t have crack together with it. But then, having crack is already illegal. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/52 "2017-10-05T16:30:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What part of “unless” do you not understand? It’s use suggest that you don’t know if Obama was aware or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/53 "2017-10-05T16:36:29Z")
I can make an SBR or an SBS in less than 30 seconds. The point isn’t crack pipes or moonshine or SBRs or SBSs. The point is that we don’t make things illegal based on the difficulty in obtaining them. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/54 "2017-10-05T16:36:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > 1. One shotgun. Perfectly legal. > > 2. One powered hacksaw. Perfectly legal. > > 3. Five minutes work. > > 4. One sawed off shotgun. Highly illegal. 1. Nunchuks. There’s lots of things and activities that get illegal in hunting. Bait, candles, lights, all kinds of things can be used illegally. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/55 "2017-10-05T16:36:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It’s use suggest that you don’t know if Obama was aware or not. Obviously, I don’t know. Neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/56 "2017-10-05T16:36:45Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://www.mattmlaw.com/blog/2013/08/if-drug-paraphernalia-is-illegal-how-do-head-shops-legally-operate.shtml](http://www.mattmlaw.com/blog/2013/08/if-drug-paraphernalia-is-illegal-how-do-head-shops-legally-operate.shtml) > > “Items sold in head shops only become drug paraphernalia after people leave the store and employ them in an illegal manner. Pursuant to 35 Pa.C.S.A. § 780-113(a)(32) of the Pennsylvania Drug Device and Cosmetic Act, drug paraphernalia is defined as a device, the purpose of which is to plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, re-pack, store, contain, conceal, inject, ingest, inhale or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance. **Thus, the items really do not become “drug paraphernalia,” unless and until there is some tangible proof that one planned to use said item in a manner, which violates the Drug Device and Cosmetic Act. That tangible proof is usually the presence of illegal drugs with the paraphernalia, or THC laced resin on smoking devices.** ” > > So - quite legal to own. Just don’t have crack together with it. But then, having crack is already illegal. So… you think we should not ban possession of crack pipes? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/57 "2017-10-05T16:41:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The Obama administration was wrong in making this a legal device to buy, construct, use. > > It was wrong then. It’s wrong now. According to the laws at the time, it was not in violation. In order to become illegal, the laws would need to be changed. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I propose a trade. Gun owners will have to license bump stocks like supressors and short-barrel rifles. In exchange, the ATF gives up It’s legal theory of ‘constructive possession’. Everyone on board with that? Not sure what you mean, what is a “bump stock like supressor”? Anyway, you are proposing a trade. One that you see, hey, they may be able to decrease the gun deaths a smidge if they enact these laws. But, hehe, we’ll get them to revoke these other laws, to open up other loopholes to make it easier for those who with to commit gun violence to do so. That’s a pretty shitty trade, and a disingenuous offer. It’s like saying, I will not punch you in the face, as long as you get rid of the rule that says that I can no longer throw rocks at your head. If you are on board with reducing the number of gun fatalities and injuries in this country, then by all means, make a suggestion. If you objective is only to frustrate the efforts of those who are trying to reduce the number of gun fatalities and injuries in this country, then you are contributing to the gun fatalities and injuries in this country. Why would you want to do that? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/58 "2017-10-05T16:43:50Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://www.mattmlaw.com/blog/2013/08/if-drug-paraphernalia-is-illegal-how-do-head-shops-legally-operate.shtml](http://www.mattmlaw.com/blog/2013/08/if-drug-paraphernalia-is-illegal-how-do-head-shops-legally-operate.shtml) > > “Items sold in head shops only become drug paraphernalia after people leave the store and employ them in an illegal manner. Pursuant to 35 Pa.C.S.A. § 780-113(a)(32) of the Pennsylvania Drug Device and Cosmetic Act, drug paraphernalia is defined as a device, the purpose of which is to plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, re-pack, store, contain, conceal, inject, ingest, inhale or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance. **Thus, the items really do not become “drug paraphernalia,” unless and until there is some tangible proof that one planned to use said item in a manner, which violates the Drug Device and Cosmetic Act. That tangible proof is usually the presence of illegal drugs with the paraphernalia, or THC laced resin on smoking devices.** ” > > So - quite legal to own. Just don’t have crack together with it. But then, having crack is already illegal. Just like your suggestion of wood and pipe. Wood and pipe are legal to own, just don’t attach them to a gun in such a way to mimic a bump stock. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/59 "2017-10-05T16:44:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So… you think we should not ban possession of crack pipes? I think such a ban is stupid and ineffective. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025/60 "2017-10-05T16:48:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I think such a ban is stupid and ineffective. Ah, you’re pro-crack pipe. Whatevs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bump-stocks-intended-ban/798025.md?page=4)