# Bunch of kids trash vacation home and tweet it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 20, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331 "2013-09-20T18:07:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/21 "2013-09-21T21:23:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > So are you saying that if you’re in a group of 30 or more you you’re allowed to trash a house? > > Don’t get me wrong, when person number 236 showed up at the party it’s hard to charge her with trespassing (or anything else along those lines). She has no idea who’s house it is or that it was broken into. But when there’s a picture of her doing a keg stand and video of her throwing a vase through a window she still deserves to get in trouble…mob psychology or not. She needs to learn that when shes in college and 15 of her drunk dorm mates are chanting " DO IT DO IT" maybe she should just take the lighter away from the curtains and say “No, YOU do it, I don’t want to get in trouble”. Just because there’s a whole bunch of other people around it doesn’t mean that what you do doesn’t have consequences. That’s the whole point of mob psychology. It _feels_ like you can do anything and get away, but you have to learn that it isn’t the case. > > Also, whether or not you can court order someone to not hang out in groups of thirty or more would be questionable, but you can court order them to not have a drop of alcohol or drugs until they’re 21 (for alcohol), and I’ll bet you can have the courts take away their access to social media if the same group of kids kept getting into these same situations. That is, if 3 weeks later the broke into another empty house and had another big party and next summer they did it again…Take away their access to social media and these parties would die out pretty quickly. Don’t put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out **GusNSpot’s** ridiculous hyperbole. Did I say it’s okay to trash someone’s house? No. I simply don’t think every teen at the party deserves to have this incident follow them for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/22 "2013-09-21T22:26:48Z")
Well the lack of judgement is clearly hereditary. It doesn’t sound like in most cases it even is a matter of legal record, just a private posting of names. So why not go ahead with an absurd frivolous lawsuit, that will definitely put their illegal presence in a trashed house on the legal record for easier searching, with the bonus of identifying the families as highly litigious. Any administrator who doesn’t now make a point of searching out those kids names and putting them on the double secret “no chance in hell of being admitted” list, is equally negligent. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/23 "2013-09-21T22:53:00Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > So are you saying that if you’re in a group of 30 or more you you’re allowed to trash a house? > > Don’t get me wrong, when person number 236 showed up at the party it’s hard to charge her with trespassing (or anything else along those lines). She has no idea who’s house it is or that it was broken into. But when there’s a picture of her doing a keg stand and video of her throwing a vase through a window she still deserves to get in trouble…mob psychology or not. She needs to learn that when shes in college and 15 of her drunk dorm mates are chanting " DO IT DO IT" maybe she should just take the lighter away from the curtains and say **“No, YOU do it, I don’t want to get in trouble”.** Just because there’s a whole bunch of other people around it doesn’t mean that what you do doesn’t have consequences. That’s the whole point of mob psychology. It _feels_ like you can do anything and get away, but you have to learn that it isn’t the case. > > Also, whether or not you can court order someone to not hang out in groups of thirty or more would be questionable, but you can court order them to not have a drop of alcohol or drugs until they’re 21 (for alcohol), and I’ll bet you can have the courts take away their access to social media if the same group of kids kept getting into these same situations. That is, if 3 weeks later the broke into another empty house and had another big party and next summer they did it again…Take away their access to social media and these parties would die out pretty quickly. Bold mine This shows the wrong mentality and wrong message and what is wrong with current society IMHO. We don’t want people to respect others property out of fear of getting in trouble (this is revenge motive btw, old testament stuff that Jesus came to do away with), we want them not to want to harm others because they care about other people. My question is have these teenagers been shown the level of caring for them in their life to realize that is what all people want and need? If not the results of not caring for these children can be shown in the OP’s link and the destroyed house. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/24 "2013-09-22T06:46:55Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out **GusNSpot’s** ridiculous hyperbole. Did I say it’s okay to trash someone’s house? No. I simply don’t think every teen at the party deserves to have this incident follow them for the rest of their lives. Why SHOULDN’T this incident follow them for the rest of their lives? If the kids involved are old enough to get to the house by themselves, then they should be old enough to realize “hey, I don’t know whose house this is, I shouldn’t be here.” Stupidity should hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/25 "2013-09-22T15:25:26Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Why SHOULDN’T this incident follow them for the rest of their lives? If the kids involved are old enough to get to the house by themselves, then they should be old enough to realize “hey, I don’t know whose house this is, I shouldn’t be here.” > > Stupidity should hurt. Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/26 "2013-09-22T15:29:35Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. When i was five, I understood that you don’t piss on carpeting, you don’t steal a gravestone and you don’t write on walls. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/27 "2013-09-22T15:42:45Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. While that’s absolutely true, I like to turn these situations around… What if this happened to you? Imagine that these kids showed up at your house. Would you say “They’re just a bunch of teens just doing teen stuff, let them go they don’t know any better” or do you think you’d want them to pay for the damages. If you wanted them to pay for the damages you’d likely have to take them to court since I’m guessing that none of those parents are ready to pony up 30K. That would be on their permanent record. It would also be a lot easier for you to get them to pay if they were issued citations which would help prove they were there and that they were doing what you said they were doing (drinking, theft, breaking and entering, trespassing, destruction of property etc). But that’s your point, you don’t want them held responsible. From that I’m inferring you’re willing to pay for the damage to your property yourself. I just thought about something else. They’re saying $30,000 in damages and 300 people at the party. Perhaps he should track down each of those 300 people and offer to ‘settle’ with them for $100. He seems like a reasonable guy. If I was at that party and I got that offer, I think I’d take it. If I was the kids parent, I’d probably pay it for the kid and then deal with the kid on my own and make sure they fully understood just how lucky they were. Even if I gave my lawyer another few hundred to make sure that it can’t come back to bite me later. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/28 "2013-09-22T16:33:42Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. Granted, that’s why we don’t allow teens to drink, and why minors can’t make valid contracts. However, most grade schoolers know that you’re not supposed to make a mess that someone else has to clean up, and they sure know that you’re not supposed to break other other people’s stuff. By the time someone has reached his/her teens, I certainly expect him/her to know better than to trash a place. Yes, some adults will do this too. The reason that both adults and teens do it is precisely BECAUSE it’s forbidden behavior. Teens can be held responsible for doing stuff like this, and they should be. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/29 "2013-09-22T17:34:09Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > When i was five, I understood that you don’t piss on carpeting, you don’t steal a gravestone and you don’t write on walls. Assuming you were brought up by good parents, you also understood that the consequences for doing those things were wrought by your parents and punished by temporary loss of privileges (or maybe a spanking). Those rules were not enforced by the police where punishment entails jail time, a severe loss or curtailing of freedom, the restriction of future job opportunities, &etc. Because you were a child with a nebulous concept of jail, freedom, and employment in the first place. Obviously teenagers have a better grasp on those concepts than a 5 year old, but it’s still a continuum. And we’ve decided as a society that critical mass isn’t reached (from a legal perspective) until age 18. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Granted, that’s why we don’t allow teens to drink, and why minors can’t make valid contracts. > > However, most grade schoolers know that you’re not supposed to make a mess that someone else has to clean up, and they sure know that you’re not supposed to break other other people’s stuff. By the time someone has reached his/her teens, I certainly expect him/her to know better than to trash a place. Yes, some adults will do this too. The reason that both adults and teens do it is precisely BECAUSE it’s forbidden behavior. Teens can be held responsible for doing stuff like this, and they should be. I said they can’t be held responsible _to the same extent as adults_. No arrest record, no jail time. I’d be comfortable with requiring their parents to pay monetary damages, and community service to try and instill a better sense of empathy. Oh, and whether or not we allow teens to drink, that doesn’t mean they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/30 "2013-09-22T18:42:00Z")
When I was being trained by the military, I was taught to never be captured by a pack of kids. A very bad outcome for you… Why do you think gangs get 14-16 year olds to do most the killing? Do you think the young ones do not know why they GET to do it? Always try to see on the victims sides as if it was you. No job is too hard for the person who does not have to do it. Do you teach your children that they can do stuff that would get an 19 year old a jail sentence but that won’t happen to them because they are 17? You just did that teaching in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/31 "2013-09-22T18:51:51Z")
I’m a victim! How was I supposed to know that you shouldn’t steal things, throw shit through the window, and trash the place? Maybe the owner wanted me to do that! He was just asking for it, leaving the place open on the weekend, with expensive and personal shit out in the open! Serves him right! Party on, Dude! ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/32 "2013-09-22T19:04:44Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Obviously teenagers have a better grasp on those concepts than a 5 year old, but it’s still a continuum. And we’ve decided as a society that critical mass isn’t reached (from a legal perspective) until age 18. Only on some issues. They can be tried as adults for many serious crimes - murder for example. Some issues do require nuance of age, etc. Going to a house that’s not yours, peeing on the floor, stealing property and writing on the walls is not one of those things. These kids knew what they were doing was wrong. They made the decision to do it anyway. The fact that 299 others were doing it too is irrelevant. They should be punished appropriately and not slapped on the wrist. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/33 "2013-09-23T06:11:00Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. . Jeezz… I despise all this brain research that “proves” teens are biologically incapable of acting normally. National Geographic printed a whole issue on this a couple years ago. “Don’t blame the person, blame his prefrontal cortex!!!” It’s science!!! I don’t need the scientific observations from a microscope, in a laboratory. I can rely on the scientific observations of my own eyes, in the real world. Here are some facts: 1. After millions of years of evolution, the brain of homo sapiens has not suddenly changed during the past couple of decades in America. 2. What has changed is our society’s concept of responsibility. 3. Throughout all of human history, there have been billions of teens who behaved normally, and who did NOT proudly destroy other people’s property for fun, and _expect no consequences._ They lived, and continue to live, in traditional societies where they helped out on the farm and worked their asses off just to keep the whole family from dying of starvation. By age 16, they were often married and feeding their own children–not twerking with Lady Gaga. Did they sometimes act stupidly? I’m sure they did ; whether in an African village (today, or a thousand years ago)— or on a cotton plantation in Missisipi 1850–the kids got wild when they had an opportunity. But here’s the point: but they knew damn well that \* if they get caught, their gonna get a whupping from somebody.\* > [@](#): > > Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions Ask your grandparents what it was like growing up in the 1930’s. Grandpa might not want to admit that he did stupid stuff. But he will probably be glad to tell you how, when he did do something stupid, he _knew he was risking punishment_. As a child, he knew that the neighbor would spank him without asking permission from his father. And as a teen, he knew that the police would arrest him for breaking into a house and destroying it. A five year old knows not to piss on the carpet and break windows on purpose. And teens can be expected to obey the law. This has been true for centuries. But only in 21st century America the “scientists” excuse it by saying “it’s okay…their prefrontal cortex made them do it.” We know that teens are immature, so we shouldn’t expect them to sign contracts. But we should expect them to obey the basic rules of decent behavior. (Yes, I’m old. So kids-----there’s no need to get off my lawn…but don’t think I’ll let you destroy it, either.) ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/34 "2013-09-23T09:59:12Z")
How old do you have to be to understand that there will be consequences to breaking the law and hurting someone? Do you really have to be 18 or have a fully formed prefrontal cortex to _understand_ that? Or do you simply have to have been taught so by parents who believed in responsibility and accountability, rather than thinking that their precious little hooligans should be able to do anything they want, brag about it publicly using their full names and photographs and STILL not be held to account for it? Charge the kids, but justice here would be Brian Holloway also slapping a massive civil suit on the kids and hitting these laissez-faire, slackass, useless parents in the pocketbook. They have absolutely no cause of action against Holloway, for all their empty threats of suit, but he has mountains of evidence to justify a claim against them. He’s being altogether too magnanimous for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/35 "2013-09-23T12:35:22Z")
Teens might not have the judgement of adults, yet, but they do have SOME judgement…and that judgement should tell them that it’s a very bad idea to tear up someone’s home, and an even worse idea to tweet it. If they don’t understand WHY it’s a bad idea to tear up someone’s home, and why it’s bad to tweet it, then maybe they should just be kept in pens. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/36 "2013-09-23T13:39:25Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > We knew we were doing wrong so we did not get caught. What, nobody recorded your mischief on a hand-cranked smartphone and then uploaded it to eniac via telegraph? Different times, man. Different times. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/37 "2013-09-23T13:59:25Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. My _dogs_ don’t get cut that much slack when they (incredibly infrequently) misbehave. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/38 "2013-09-23T18:47:46Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. That’s why we shouldn’t give teens the death penalty. It’s probably why we shouldn’t give teens life in prison either. Since no one has proposed either one of those things for the little brats who did trashed this guy’s house, it really has nothing to do with the situation in question. Every one of them should be at least fined for the damages, forced to apologize publically and then be forced to do some sort of restitution. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/39 "2013-09-23T19:13:31Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Logic that applies to adult behaviors does not follow for teen behaviors. The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed in minors. Brain development is why we don’t/can’t hold minors responsible for their actions to the same extent we hold adults responsible for the same actions. Do you think that the teenagers knew that they were doing something wrong as they were trashing the house? I’m not asking to what degree you think they should be held accountable. I’m just asking if, in your opinion, the partygoers thought they were breaking the law or doing things that they shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331/40 "2013-09-23T19:21:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you think that the teenagers knew that they were doing something wrong as they were trashing the house? > > I’m not asking to what degree you think they should be held accountable. I’m just asking if, in your opinion, the partygoers thought they were breaking the law or doing things that they shouldn’t. Perhaps not if they were the children of Somali pirates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bunch-of-kids-trash-vacation-home-and-tweet-it/669331.md?page=3)