# Bundy's and ilk go free. Damn them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617 "2017-08-25T00:29:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pippers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5a626/32.png) [@Pippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pippers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/21 "2017-08-25T13:41:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The land was abandoned and had been declared surplus federal property. > It was not a forced occupation and property was not destroyed. > More of a prolonged sit-in. Perfect! I was going to look that up but you’ve answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/22 "2017-08-25T13:45:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The article you link to is confusing. It’s dated Aug. 24 of this year but I’m pretty sure the Oregon case was decided last year; the case that was decided a few days ago was in Las Vegas and pertained to Bundy’s followers not the Bundys themselves. Or am I missing something? > > In any event, there have been now 2 trials in which jurors have blatantly ignored evidence and decided against a conviction. Now had it been 4 black guys being charged with selling drugs they’d probably get convicted and sentenced to hard time. There is no logical explanation for the verdicts other than jurors having some sympathy for their cause. Occupying a government-owned building, destroying government-owned property, and holing up there with guns and ammo are federal crimes - it’s black and white. There’s no room for analyzing anything. But this is how the conservative brain works. > > The activists jurors might think they’re taking a stand against the big bad gubmint but all they’re doing is encouraging an escalation, and it’s an escalation that will have a body count. We went through this shit back in the 1990s and it ended up with David Koresh burning children alive and Tim McVeigh blowing up a federal building. Maybe, but we don’t know that. Could be the prosecution team was incompetent. Wouldn’t be the the first time. And just to be clear, I think the odds are that you are right (hence my earlier post), but the fact is we don’t really know. Not based on the info in the link in the OP, unless you have other sources of info confirming this? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/23 "2017-08-25T13:57:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Did they have jobs? I remember during the hold off and right after there was info about many of these guys that showed them to be lazy pucks. The dude that was shot had a bazillion foster kids that he got paid thru the government for “taking care of.” A some others were on disability pay for some thing or another. But the best of the best had wives that worked and took care of the family so the big, tough, righteous warrior could go play army with his friends. Freaking losers. that sums them up, alright ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/24 "2017-08-25T14:32:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The land was abandoned and had been declared surplus federal property. > It was not a forced occupation and property was not destroyed. > More of a prolonged sit-in. Didn’t the occupiers burn down the Coast Guard building on Alcatraz? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/25 "2017-08-25T14:40:58Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The land was abandoned and had been declared surplus federal property. > It was not a forced occupation and property was not destroyed. > More of a prolonged sit-in. It was a seizure of federal property with the intent of making it sovereign Indian land. It was much more than a sit in. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/26 "2017-08-25T14:43:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The land was abandoned and had been declared surplus federal property. > It was not a forced occupation and property was not destroyed. > More of a prolonged sit-in. It was a seizure of federal property with the intent of making it sovereign Indian land. It was much more than a sit in. And property was destroyed in a suspicious fire. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/27 "2017-08-25T14:44:20Z")
Double post…apologies. Ninjad as well. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/28 "2017-08-25T14:46:30Z")
For the record, I condemn both acts. Laws should be enforced equally. Violence should be condemned equally and hate should not be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/29 "2017-08-25T14:55:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Didn’t the occupiers burn down the Coast Guard building on Alcatraz? Were they charged or convicted? Or are you now willing to judge them guilty without a trial or even evidence? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/30 "2017-08-25T15:01:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Were they charged or convicted? Or are you now willing to judge them guilty without a trial or even evidence? Yeah, next thing you know he’ll be accusing people of being criminals _who have actually been acquitted by a jury of their peers?_ But it was a question he asked related to a statement you made. What is your answer? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/31 "2017-08-25T15:06:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Were they charged or convicted? Or are you now willing to judge them guilty without a trial or even evidence? Why not? Some posters here are judging people guilty even with a trial and an acquittal. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/32 "2017-08-25T15:10:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Were they charged or convicted? Or are you now willing to judge them guilty without a trial or even evidence? Evidence would be the burned down ruins of the former edifices. VP Agnew ironically was a strong supporter of NA rights and the Nixon Administration at the time was inclined to help the community. So it never became a matter for the Justice Dept. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/33 "2017-08-25T15:12:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Evidence would be the burned down ruins of the former edifices. VP Agnew ironically was a strong supporter of NA rights and the Nixon Administration at the time was inclined to help the community. So it never became a matter for the Justice Dept. Was it deliberately set or accidental? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/34 "2017-08-25T15:49:12Z")
I’d never even heard of the Native Americans and Alcatraz, but one difference I see from a quick read of Wikipedia is that the Native Americans didn’t come heavily armed and didn’t threaten to kill any law enforcement officers who got in their way. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/35 "2017-08-25T16:56:43Z")
Nobody cares much about government property. The great common people of the US have good instincts on right and wrong when it comes to property. This jury nullified an unjust prosecution. If the militia had occupied someone’s legitimately held property, charges would be brought and the offenders rightfully convicted. Public property and government property are not legitimately held property. That is why the common people do not view taking or destroying that property as being as bad as taking or destroying real-deal private property held by someone who owned it. Instinctively, most people in the US understand property rights pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/36 "2017-08-25T17:01:18Z")
Well, there’s a shocker. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/37 "2017-08-25T17:03:08Z")
I see some folks are still nursing a mad-on because the Feds didn’t swoop in and kill all the Bundy tards during the occupation. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/38 "2017-08-25T17:09:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Was it deliberately set or accidental? No one knows and no investigation was conducted. But the government looked favorably upon them, so no harm no foul. At least we got another National Park as a result of the occupation. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/39 "2017-08-25T17:49:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Nobody cares much about government property. The great common people of the US have good instincts on right and wrong when it comes to property. This jury nullified an unjust prosecution. If the militia had occupied someone’s legitimately held property, charges would be brought and the offenders rightfully convicted. > > Public property and government property are not legitimately held property. That is why the common people do not view taking or destroying that property as being as bad as taking or destroying real-deal private property held by someone who owned it. Instinctively, most people in the US understand property rights pretty well. I think most people in the US value things like the interstates and national parks. Why is public property not legitimately held? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/40 "2017-08-25T18:05:01Z")
It would be an interesting world wherein the national parks and interstate highways were privately owned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617.md?page=3)