# Bundy's and ilk go free. Damn them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617 "2017-08-25T00:29:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/61 "2017-08-26T11:46:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Meaningless; they were treated with kid gloves in the original confrontation, and will go free for no better reason than the fact that they are white and right wing. If they’d been black, left wing or Muslim they’d have been unlikely to have survived long enough for a trial, much less have gone unpunished. Right–these people aren’t protesters, they [are terrorists](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/14/oregon-militia-standoff-bundy-trial-oregon-sheriff-david-ward) attempting to overthrow the US government and turn it into a libertarian distopia. The military should handle them with Predator drones if the court system can’t give them the lifetime locked away in a cage that they _should_ get. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/62 "2017-08-26T11:46:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Meaningless; they were treated with kid gloves in the original confrontation, and will go free for no better reason than the fact that they are white and right wing. If they’d been black, left wing or Muslim they’d have been unlikely to have survived long enough for a trial, much less have gone unpunished. Can you cite any such massacres of blacks, left wingers, or Muslims in the US in recent times? Say, the last 40 years? You state what would have happened to them with such confidence that I assume it must have happened many times before. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/63 "2017-08-26T12:06:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Right–these people aren’t protesters, they [are terrorists](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/14/oregon-militia-standoff-bundy-trial-oregon-sheriff-david-ward) attempting to overthrow the US government and turn it into a libertarian distopia. The military should handle them with Predator drones if the court system can’t give them the lifetime locked away in a cage that they _should_ get. Who else do you think should be summarily killed by the government? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/64 "2017-08-26T12:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Seven defendants chose not to be tried at this time. Wait, what ? You can do that ?! “Um, y’r’honor, I’m sorry, it’s an inconvenience to be tried right now. But I’ll call you, OK ?” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/65 "2017-08-26T12:35:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Can you cite any such massacres of blacks, left wingers, or Muslims in the US in recent times? Say, the last 40 years? Black rights group MOVE, Philadelphia, 1985. Aerial bombing of a residential block by police. Five black children killed. Six black adults killed. Sixty-five homes destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/66 "2017-08-26T12:47:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Who else do you think should be summarily killed by the government? Nobody. Just the armed terrorists in the process of attempting to overthrow the government. They want war with the US? Give it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/67 "2017-08-26T13:03:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Nobody. Just the armed terrorists in the process of attempting to overthrow the government. They want war with the US? Give it to them. So, these bumpkins were attempting to overthrow the US government? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/68 "2017-08-26T13:08:30Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Black rights group MOVE, Philadelphia, 1985. Aerial bombing of a residential block by police. Five black children killed. Six black adults killed. Sixty-five homes destroyed. Okay, that’s one. The mayor who classified them as a terrorist organization and oversaw the action was black, so how does that fit into the narrative that they were killed for being black? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/69 "2017-08-26T13:16:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So, these bumpkins were attempting to overthrow the US government? Yes, they were trying to inspire it and trigger it. Just as Tim McVeigh intended to to in Oklahoma City. But I figure that you already know this and are JAQing off. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/70 "2017-08-26T13:22:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s the attitude inevitably created when it’s made obvious that a group is above the law. If the law of the state no longer applies then we are reduced to the law of the jungle; brute force, enforcing behavior by simply killing violators. “LAW AND ORDER” -Trump Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/71 "2017-08-26T13:26:12Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Nobody. Just the armed terrorists in the process of attempting to overthrow the government. They want war with the US? Give it to them. They were trying to overthrow the US government by taking over a bird sanctuary in Oregon? I guess you have to start somewhere… I’m all for prosecuting these yahoos, but let’s not create martyrs out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/72 "2017-08-26T13:31:28Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, they were trying to inspire it and trigger it. Just as Tim McVeigh intended to to in Oklahoma City. But I figure that you already know this and are JAQing off. I’m trying to find out just how much of your posting in this thread is you being a bog-standard, bellicose internet blowhard and how much of it is serious. Given the government’s history of violence, the current POTUS, and whatnot, a person would have to be a simpleton to think it a good idea to let the government freely murder citizens just by labeling them terrorists. I wasn’t pleased when the previous POTUS did the same to foreign nationals. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/73 "2017-08-26T13:34:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They were trying to overthrow the US government by taking over a bird sanctuary in Oregon? [Yep](https://theconversation.com/malheur-occupation-is-over-but-the-war-for-americas-public-lands-rages-on-54943). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/74 "2017-08-26T13:35:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They were trying to overthrow the US government by taking over a bird sanctuary in Oregon? Nobody here is saying it was a _good_ plan. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/75 "2017-08-26T13:36:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > “LAW AND ORDER” > > -Trump > > Same thing. Except when it comes to pardoning Arpaio. Then … _other_ considerations take precedence. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/76 "2017-08-26T13:40:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Nobody here is saying it was a _good_ plan. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/77 "2017-08-26T13:41:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Except when it comes to pardoning Arpaio. Then … _other_ considerations take precedence. Exactly. These are not people you want having the power to summarily kill people. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/78 "2017-08-26T13:42:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Okay, that’s one. The mayor who classified them as a terrorist organization and oversaw the action was black, so how does that fit into the narrative that they were killed for being black? The issue isn’t whether or not the eviction of the black rights group should have been performed. The issue is why the method chosen was aerial bombing and why a city block was burned to the ground. The police and fire commissioners were the people who made the decision to bomb the house and to let the city block burn to the ground. They were both white. It is irrelevant that the mayor and city manager were black, just as it is irrelevant the President was black in the Bundy standoff and the Bundy occupation. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/79 "2017-08-26T13:45:53Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The issue isn’t whether or not the eviction of the black rights group should have been performed. The issue is why the method chosen was aerial bombing and why a city block was burned to the ground. > > The police and fire commissioners were the people who made the decision to bomb the house and to let the city block burn to the ground. They were both white. > > It is irrelevant that the mayor and city manager were black, just as it is irrelevant the President was black in the Bundy standoff and the Bundy occupation. Please make a case that they were killed for being black. Some of the government officials being white does not, in and of itself, demonstrate that. They were black and they were killed. Draw a link between those two things or withdraw the example. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617/80 "2017-08-26T13:57:16Z")
Both MOVE and Malheur were armed civil rights occupations. In both matters it was appropriate for the powers that be to direct that the occupations be stopped. In both matters the person with the ultimate authority was black (the black president or the black mayor), but in both matters, the people who determined and carried out the outcomes were all white. With MOVE the people with the immediate power to decide where white and they chose to kill the blacks, whereas with the Bundys, the people with the immediate power to decide were white and chose to release the whites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-and-ilk-go-free-damn-them/794617.md?page=5)