# Bundy's remarks about African-Americans were arguably stupid, and ignorant and offensive but.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000 "2014-04-25T23:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/21 "2014-04-26T04:40:01Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > Put another way, I’m just saying that stupidity and ignorance can be fought with more speech, education, and conversation but we should limit the use that term ‘racist’ to those who are truly hostile and hateful. This is just an opinion. “Racism” has simply become too expansive, the price paid is speech and ideas, and sometimes truth. First, just thinking people of a particular race are better, or worse, or smarter, or dumber, or anything other than superficial characteristics which have actually been used to define the races themselves is racist. More to the point, when someone says an entire group of people were better off when they had absolutely no freedom, volition, or control, there is no lack of hostility and hatred there. Do you even have the slightest grasp on what happened to black people during chattel slavery? And even more to the point, you demonstrated in your Stormfront thread that you HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/22 "2014-04-26T06:04:04Z")
That’s mighty Christian of you. Specifically, I’m thinking Fourth Crusade at Constantinople. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/23 "2014-04-26T06:08:05Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > “Racism” has simply become too expansive, the price paid is speech and ideas, and sometimes truth. Please explain how calling someone who advocates slavery a racist costs us the truth. The truth is he’s a racist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/24 "2014-04-26T06:49:18Z")
I imagine Mr. Bundy has no idea that everyone outside the Sean Hannity Analinguistics Society sees Mr. Bundy as the deadbeat freeloader. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/25 "2014-04-26T06:49:48Z")
Bundy is A Dick. I can’t wait to eat his welfare cows. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/26 "2014-04-26T07:57:37Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > but his remarks lack a critical element: HOSTILITY or HATE. True, but it’s worse. It’s patronage. No the good kind of patronage like endowing a college or some such, but the bad kind. The kind we based the word “patronize” off of. Pat the thing on the head because it don’t know better. Oh, ain’t it nice to see it try? That’s how you treat a dog. You don’t have hostility or hate for your dog. Or your pigs. Those things are smart. Or your horses. They’re not so smart, but you love 'em anyway. And cows, well, that’s a different thread. Anyway, the reason I bring this all up is lacking “HOSTILITY or HATE” doesn’t mean much if you view humans like livestock. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/27 "2014-04-26T09:22:05Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Bundy is A Dick. I can’t wait to eat his welfare cows. Would they really be tasty though? They’ve been grazing in desert lands. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/28 "2014-04-26T09:33:26Z")
No, I’m comfortable saying that believing black people were happier as slaves is in fact a hateful belief, since the hate is rooted in ingnorance in a belief in the inherent inferiority of black people, (supposedly) unable to better themselves and too lazy to break their dependence on government money. And I’m comfortable with defining racism as holding hateful beliefs about a whole group based on their “race”. I realize that stupid racists would prefer that we stop calling them racist for anything short of a new holocaust. Stupid sexists are like that, too. It’s part of the attempt to handwave modern sexism and racism as problems that don’t apply any more. I don’t see any reason why non-stupid racists should humor them. Oh, hey - speaking of stupid, can we all just take a moment to gag at the idea that slavery provided comfortable family stability? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/29 "2014-04-26T11:41:04Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > “Racism” has simply become too expansive, the price paid is speech and ideas, and sometimes truth. Said every racist ever. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/30 "2014-04-26T12:47:10Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > Put another way, I’m just saying that stupidity and ignorance can be fought with more speech, education, and conversation but we should limit the use that term ‘racist’ to those who are truly hostile and hateful. This is just an opinion. “Racism” has simply become too expansive, the price paid is speech and ideas, and sometimes truth. Says the fucking moron who thinks writing that Jews control NYC isn’t anti-Semitic. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/31 "2014-04-26T13:04:50Z")
Yea gods, the only thing the OP is missing is the requisite pre-comment “I am not a racist but…” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/32 "2014-04-26T13:38:14Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Yea gods, the only thing the OP is missing is the requisite pre-comment “I am not a racist but…” Some of the OP’s best friends are negroes! ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/33 "2014-04-26T13:49:33Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Would they really be tasty though? They’ve been grazing in desert lands. Mesquite infused ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/34 "2014-04-26T14:07:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He also seems to be saying that blacks can’t live responsible and productive lives without whites to control them. That **is** racist even without the hatred. I don’t agree that he is necessarily saying this. I get that he is saying that working and taking care of your family is better than sitting on the porch with nothing to do while your family unit disintegrates. The screwed up thing is he thinks that since slaves had jobs and ( I’m not sure where he’s getting this last part ) stable families they were better off because being on subsidies are that damaging. The question that wasn’t asked is if he would say that an even better outcome would be that there not be a safety net thus forcing people to work and then “join him in his society” just like he wanted the spanish to have. He wasn’t asked that question so we don’t really know how he feels about whether blacks are better off in general if not controlled by whites. If he thinks that them working and having families is better than being a slaves then your point would not be true and we don’t know since the question was never asked. So, his opinion sure appears racist it doesn’t rise to the level of being pro slavery in my opinion rather it’s an extreme disdain for those who are dependent on the government. One weird thing is that blame is not in what he said either. That’s really confusing. He’s not saying that blacks are predisposed to laziness but rather that they are stuck in a cycle of dependency because after generations of living on the dole they now have no job skills which allow them to break that cycle. He talks like this was because they went straight from slavery to dependency and were never allowed to develop as productive members of society. He doesn’t offer any ideas on how to transition these people out of the welfare state of mind. Why does he associate this with only blacks and not anyone on subsidies? Why does he believe that this is primarily a black issue? Therein lies the racist bits. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/35 "2014-04-26T14:17:47Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Says the fucking moron who thinks writing that Jews control NYC isn’t anti-Semitic. But it was a compliment! He likes them Jews in charge cause we’re so smart and all that. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/36 "2014-04-26T14:26:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But it was a compliment! He likes them Jews in charge cause we’re so smart and all that. > > :dubious: New boy in the neighborhood Lives downstairs and it is understood. He’s there just to take good care of me, Like he’s one of the family. Jews in Charge Of our days and our nights Jews in Charge Of our wrongs and our rights And I sing, I want, I want Jews in Charge of me. Naah, I’m not buying it either. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/37 "2014-04-26T14:28:28Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > …That’s really confusing. He’s not saying that blacks are predisposed to laziness but rather that they are stuck in a cycle of dependency because after generations of living on the dole they now have no job skills which allow them to break that cycle. He talks like this was because they went straight from slavery to dependency and were never allowed to develop as productive members of society. He doesn’t offer any ideas on how to transition these people out of the welfare state of mind. > > Why does he associate this with only blacks and not anyone on subsidies? Why does he believe that this is primarily a black issue? Therein lies the racist bits. Just so. This isn’t some isolated drivel created in the confused mind of a tax -or fee- dodging Nevada rancher. It’s the basic Republican party line on entitlement programs, or at least those designed to aid the poor. (The subsidization of federal lands which directly benefits private ranchers like Mr. Bundy is of course \*in no way \*a dependency-producing socialist institution.) So conservative supporters aren’t necessarily backing away from Mr. Bundy because they disagree with what he said, or even because they recognize that it’s inherently racist. Bundy’s mistake, made presumably out of honest ignorance or political ineptitude, was to express these ideas explicitly and without the use of code words. -No one issued poor Clive his dog whistle. Had he studied some video of Paul Ryan prior to this interview, he’d still likely be a conservative darling. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/38 "2014-04-26T16:00:46Z")
Has the OP been sucking off the teat of Paula Dean or something? (Try getting THAT image out of you head!) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/39 "2014-04-26T17:15:53Z")
I’m surprised no one has commented on this statement from post #13: > [@Bundy](#): > > and so what I’ve testified to you – I was in the Watts riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen that last fire. How did he get involved in _that_? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000/40 "2014-04-26T17:47:27Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Yea gods, the only thing the OP is missing is the requisite pre-comment “I am not a racist but…” Or, “It’s not politically correct to say but…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bundys-remarks-about-african-americans-were-arguably-stupid-and-ignorant-and-offensive-but/687000.md?page=3)