# Burger King's lamest apology EVER! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857 "2003-11-12T17:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/41 "2003-11-12T19:44:55Z")
Funny how people get offended by a baby hungrily nuzzling a bare boobie but don’t think twice about shoveling a processed, grilled, fat-fortified agglomeration of cow parts into their pie hole. **autz** , you’re fighting the good fight here, but IMHO[sup]†[/sup] BK’s reluctance to apologize directly to the woman may be out of the necessity to protect itself as a corporation, and in part, its franchisee. It’s much better for the corporation to defend against allegations of breaking the law and violating the woman’s rights (should she choose to take that onerous and expensive route) than it is to admit to wrongdoing. Another notable case against BK in the news right now is about employees’ wanton contamination of food to be served to the public. The suit alleges employees contaminated BK food with urine, degreaser and saliva on a very regular basis. In this suit, the presence of an apology letter from the management to one of the recipients of the contaminated food would likely be considered a “smoking gun.” †My very first _real_ job was with Burger King. I have many neat stories, from stupidity in management to outright cornholing of food product. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/42 "2003-11-12T19:47:08Z")
Many babies don’t like to be covered while they are nursing. They like to be able to look up at their mother and it is a bonding experience. Shutting them off from the parent during feeding defeats a good portion of the purpose. Simply because someone could avoid doing something doesn’t mean they should be expected to. Especially if that something is perfectly natural, legal, and healthy. There is no reason for a breastfeeding mother to cover herself and the baby during nursing to avoid offending those who may feel the sight is offensive. The interracial couple COULD avoid Burger King, or they COULD sit at seperate tables to avoid offending anyone who maybe offended by interracial relationships. But it is their right to be there and to be together. Just because they could do something else, also within their rights, and thereby avoid the situation doesn’t mean they would be one whit in the wrong for sitting together, even if it offends some other customers. All that being said, **autz** , I think their apology was underwhelming, but as long as they change their behavior and don’t bother nursing mothers in the future I don’t think there is an issue here. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/43 "2003-11-12T19:48:05Z")
My, what a terrible job coding I did. I apologize to anyone on the Straight Dope Message Board on November 12, 2003 who might have been offended by any faulty coding I did. ---
**Author:** ![Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horrifying_Howler_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/44 "2003-11-12T19:48:08Z")
I would love to see an answer to the issue **XJETGIRLX** mentioned, as I have always wondered that. Do business owners have the right to evict someone from their business for any reason they decide? Is it considered private property? I assume in most situations I can kick anyone out of my house I want to, but would it be the same if ran a business out of it? ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/45 "2003-11-12T19:55:38Z")
Seems to me **autz** that since you consider the act of breastfeeding in public to be no big deal, why do expect the nature of the apology to be out of proportion to it? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/46 "2003-11-12T19:59:02Z")
Most businesses reserve the right, somewhere in the fine print, to “refuse service to anyone for any or no reason”. The SDMB included. Now if this holds up in a court of law is a different matter. For the most part if you open a place up to the public, as a BK certainly is, then you accept the rules that govern behavior in public places(usually the laws of the state/city/county/etc) in which the business is located. In this particular case BK, by opening a public resturant in Utah, implicitly accepted the laws of the state of Utah regarding the right to breastfeed in public places. They violated that rule, and thus the bru-ha-ha. If BK wanted to enforce this type of issue they would have to be members-only and have membership agreements which stated their objection to breastfeeding in the resturant. Even with such agreements there are some barriers you can’t cross and suits have been successful against private establishments which tried to restrict membership on basis of several “protected rights” such as race, gender, etc. Does any of that help? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/47 "2003-11-12T20:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by XJETGIRLX \* > \*\*I thought that ‘public facilities’ were only those owned and maintained by the state? > > I understand that they have to follow the rules of the state that they operate in. The law only says that they cannot prohibit her from breastfeeding _in any place she otherwise may rightfully be_. I don’t think that this would have overridden the business’ right to ask her to leave if they so chose, is all I’m saying. Whether or not she may rightfully be there if they asked her to leave is my contention. I don’t know that that is the case, but I’m curious to know if the business could have legally asked her to leave and still not run afoul of the law. > > I don’t see how this is in any way related to civil rights sit-ins though. \*\* A “public facility” is "a wide range of entities, such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, doctors’ offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums, libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs and religious organizations are exempt from the requirements for public accommodations. " They "may not prohibit a woman’s breast feeding in any location where she otherwise may rightfully be, irrespective of whether the breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breastfeeding. " Meaning if they kick this lady out of BK because she’s stealing from the other customer’s, then she doesn’t have a right to be there in the first place. But they can’t kick her out (or ask her to go elsewhere) just _becasue she’s nursing_. Think of it this way. If this lady weren’t nursing and didn’t even have a baby, is she allowed to be there? Unless she’s doing something weird, the answer is yes. So she may rightfully be there. So they can’t prohibit her from breastfeeding. The referece to civil rights sit-ins has to do with the fact that lunch counters and other places tried to argue that they were private businesses and could restrict certain races from entering if they wanted. That’s where the idea of public accomidations comes in. It applies to keeping your facility open and accessable to the **public** ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/48 "2003-11-12T20:03:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by autz \* > \*\*My, what a terrible job coding I did. > > I apologize to anyone on the Straight Dope Message Board on November 12, 2003 who might have been offended by any faulty coding I did. \*\* Not good enough. Admit what you did and why it was wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/49 "2003-11-12T20:06:20Z")
Why don’t women ever want to breast-feed in fast-food restaurants that I’M eating at? I like breasts! ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/50 "2003-11-12T20:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*Not good enough. Admit what you did and why it was wrong. 😉 \*\* I can’t. That might open me up to all kinds of messy lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/51 "2003-11-12T20:07:08Z")
**Magayuk** - not really. If Idiot Manager doesn’t like people in wheelchairs, in theory he could ask those people to leave his restaraunt, but he better have a reason apart from the wheelchair for doing so. Ditto for breast feeding. A restaraunt is a public place. Just as they are required to accomodate persons with handicaps, they are required to tolerate them as well. Utah law states that women are alowed to breast feed anywhere they please, provided they would ordinarily be alowed there. Assuming the lady in question wasn’t doing anything _besides_ breastfeeding, the manager could not legally ask her to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/52 "2003-11-12T20:26:27Z")
The response from BK is pretty damn lame, but no more or less than I’d expect from a big corporation. As a breastfeeding mom who does nurse in public frequently (my walking, talking 15-month-old - horrors! :rolleyes: ) I carry a card with me at all times: \*California Civil Code 43.3 Breastfeeding Rights Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breastfeed her child in any location, public or private, except a private home or residence of another, where the mother and child are authorized to be present.\* it seems that the mom and baby in question were authorized to be in the BK having been served and permitted to seat themselves, so had they been in California the resturant would have been breaking the law asking her to stop breastfeeding. They card I carry doesn’t address the question of being asked to relocate to private area however, so that request on the part of the BK employee might be more murky legal question. Twiddle ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/53 "2003-11-12T20:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by autz \* > \*\*So a lady goes into Burger King and starts nursing her baby. The managers get a complaint \*\* You know, most of these restaurants _do_ have policies against bringing in outside food. Why couldn’t this lady have just ordered her kid a Super Sized Similac like everyone else? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DaveX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@DaveX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveX)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/54 "2003-11-12T20:38:55Z")
Just curious, does anybody’s opinion change if it’s not a big, evil corpoorate entity like BK, and instead (just for fun) we said the incident occured at a small locally owned coffee shop (or something)? ---
**Author:** ![angelicate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@angelicate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/angelicate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/55 "2003-11-12T20:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > \*\*“Burger King Corporation and our franchisee apologize for any inconvenience any of our guests experienced at our restaurant on November 10, 2003.” > > That’s the beauty of this apology. It not only covers an apology to the woman who likes to breast feed her baby in front of complete stangers but also to the people that were trying to eat a meal and were disgusted by the sight. \*\* Oh Jesus Christ, you’d think the lady stood on a table, stripped to the waist and danced around, all while holding the child up to one breast. She fed her child. If she’s anything like I was when she was nursing, she was pretty discreet. Sure, someone could catch a tiny glimpse of skin, if they really tried, but for the most part, they’d see my baby’s head in front of my breast with my shirt covering any skin above that. Sure, I tried covering her up completely with a blanket at first, but since we didn’t do that at home, she hated it and would throw the blanket off, often turning her head in the process and then my breast would actually be exposed. Here’s a suggestion: You don’t like the look of someone breastfeeding their child, don’t look. Unless she stands in front of you with baby and breast at eye level, I’m sure you can find a way to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/56 "2003-11-12T20:44:28Z")
autz, Why do you keep expounding on the idea that the restaurant has no \*\*right] to **ask** the mother to cover up or move? BK certainly has every right to ask her. I mean, do we know did they ask politely, or forcefully? Is the mother’s response reasonable or unreasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/57 "2003-11-12T20:53:14Z")
My guess is that heads are rolling in BK’s public relations department. If they’d just issued a straightforward apology, this wouldn’t be making the news; as it is, I doubt Burger King is happy about how they’re making the news. Big time PR screwup from the very people who are supposed to be helping their PR. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/58 "2003-11-12T21:17:49Z")
Mr. Octopus, Would BK have the right to ask a black woman to leave because she is black? Would they have the right to ask an Scientologist to leave because he’s reading “Battlefield Earth?” To ask an epiletic to leave because she had a siezure? No. Does it matter if they ask politely or forcefully? No. How could the mother’s response be unreasonable if she’s in a public place doing a legal activity? ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/59 "2003-11-12T21:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Lady asks BK for an apology and gets this lame old response, “Burger King Corporation and our franchisee apologize for any inconvenience any of our guests experienced at our restaurant on November 10, 2003.” Well, Thank GOODNESS I read this post! I asked for no Onions on my whopper on Nov. 10… and I got frickin’ onions on it like they were just giving onions away! And now they apologized. That’s sweet 🙂 Long story short on this one folks: Breast feeding is okay. BK shouldn’t have said anything. Stupid kid’s fault trying to please another customer (who obviously fears breasts). Change the situation to NOSE PICKING. It’s perfectly legal to pick your nose )And wipe it into your handkerchief that you then place in your pocket). but it MAY offend someone, who may say something, and something might be said to you. BK did just enough of what it had to do to amend the situation. The woman was too sensitive, BK employee was too insensitive, the person that complained needs to get laid. END OF STORY! ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/60 "2003-11-12T21:27:59Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Twiddle \* > \*\* They card I carry doesn’t address the question of being asked to relocate to private area however, so that request on the part of the BK employee might be more murky legal question._\* Not really, it is still pretty straightforward. The woman has a right to be in the public area, therefore she has a right to breastfeed in the public area. The language of the laws in both California and Utah make that clear. Being asked to re-locate out of a public area is a request which the nursing mother has absolutely no obligation to honor. She can simply sit there and nurse anyway, they have no standing on which to force her to move. Call the cops? They know the law and they won’t arrest her for nursing in a public place. Strongarm her yourself? Then the cops come for the person doing the strongarming and the money in the pockets of their employer. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Gangster Octopus_ > **"Why do you keep expounding on the idea that the restaurant has no _right_ to _ask_ the mother to cover up or move? BK certainly has every right to ask her. I mean, do we know did they ask politely, or forcefully? Is the mother’s response reasonable or unreasonable?** Because they DON’T have the right to even ASK in any sort of official capacity. If the manager came up and acted as an agent of the BK corporation when he asked her to cover herself or remove herself from the public area, then the manager was acting illegally because the relationship the corporation has with the state expressly disallows them to discriminate on this basis. It doesn’t matter how politely or impolitely it was worded. No entity which creates a place and opens it to the public can put rules around that place which are in violation of the state’s laws governing public behavior. That is simply one of the rules of doing business in the US. Even by ASKING they violated their agreement with the state, and the citizens thereof, which they agreed to when they opened the resturant. They had no right to ask. Period. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857.md?page=4)