# Burger King's lamest apology EVER! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857 "2003-11-12T17:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/61 "2003-11-12T21:56:22Z")
Steven, So are you saying they could be prosecuted or fined? I don’t buy it ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/62 "2003-11-12T22:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mtgman_ > Because they DON’T have the right to even ASK in any sort of official capacity. Erm, one would think that legally they can ask whatever the hell they want. What they actually have the legal power to enforce, however, is another matter. I am still living in America, right? Bill of rights, freedom of speech and whatnot? Mmmkay. Just checking. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/63 "2003-11-12T22:10:35Z")
So I guess I’m the only one really surprised that women have a right to breastfeed virtually anywhere and anytime in Utah and California? I could certainly understand if it there was an ordinance specifying that doing so in public wasn’t a crime or some such, but I’m very surprised that private institutions are not allowed to prohibit it under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/64 "2003-11-12T22:16:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racinchikki \* > \*\*Hell, I wrote to them complaining about the drive-thru chick who gave my food to another car, told me about it, and refused to do anything until I went in and forced her to give me my food while I stood there and watched her put it in the bag, and I didn’t even get the form letter. \*\* In situations like this, you’re much better off writing a letter to (or calling on the phone) the manager or owner of the Burger King in question, rather than writing a letter to Corporate. The owner/manager has a much more vested interest in keeping **that particular** Burger King operating in a friendly manner so that they’ll get repeat business. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/65 "2003-11-12T22:23:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by XJETGIRLX \* > \*\*That may be true, but as a private business don’t they get to say who may or may not be on their premesis regardless of the reason? Not that I don’t think they were assholes for making a scene of it all, but legally they can refuse service or ask anyone to leave their store for any reason. I don’t think the law would support her right to remain on the premesis if they asked her to leave and she didn’t. Or am I mistaken in my understanding? \*\* I suspect you’re mistaken. The law requires that places of public accomodation – which are NOT the same as state-owned facilities – are forbidden to discriminate on certain grounds. While an establishment might be able to require all Star Wars fans to leave, they likely could not require all African Americans to leave. So far as a cursory examination reveals, Utah law imposes a similar duty with respect to breastfeeding - that is, even though you are a privately owned establishment, if you’re a place of public accomodation, you cannot refuse to serve a breastfeeding woman. I welcome corrections on this point from someone more versed in Utah law than I. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/66 "2003-11-12T22:23:14Z")
**cckerboros** It’s not just Utah and California. It’s every state in the U.S. And as was mentioned earlier, they aren’t ‘private institutions,’ they are public accomidations. **XJETGIRLX** Can they **ask** a Muslim not to read the Koran in their restaurant? Maybe. But they’ll end up pissing a lot of people off, making an apology (even if half-assed), and putting the issue on the front page of CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/67 "2003-11-12T22:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by XJETGIRLX \* > Erm, one would think that legally they can ask whatever the hell they want. What they actually have the legal power to enforce, however, is another matter. I am still living in America, right? Bill of rights, freedom of speech and whatnot? Mmmkay. Just checking. Erm, yourself. Thought experiment: tomorrow, a Burger King manager approaches an African-American woman and says, “Excuse me, but would you mind leaving? Some of our customers don’t like blacks. I hope you understand.” Legal? Or not? He is, after all, just asking. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/68 "2003-11-12T22:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveX \* > \*\*Just curious, does anybody’s opinion change if it’s not a big, evil corpoorate entity like BK, and instead (just for fun) we said the incident occured at a small locally owned coffee shop (or something)? \*\* Mine doesn’t change. I’d definitely be pissed off to be asked to breastfeed in the toilet and it wouldn’t depend on who asked. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/69 "2003-11-12T22:39:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Erm, yourself. > > Thought experiment: tomorrow, a Burger King manager approaches an African-American woman and says, “Excuse me, but would you mind leaving? Some of our customers don’t like blacks. I hope you understand.” > > Legal? Or not? He is, after all, just asking. > > - Rick \*\* Well, I would hope that is legal, just as I would hope that the person tells the manager to “Fuck off.” ---
**Author:** ![Frumpy\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Frumpy\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frumpy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/70 "2003-11-12T22:40:50Z")
Why prohibit it? it’s not like they are flinging their breast milk to and fro all over the place! What is your legal reason for not allowing it, or why are you surprised? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/71 "2003-11-12T22:48:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gangster Octopus \* > **So are you saying they could be prosecuted or fined? I don’t buy it** [Yes, actually.](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/HealthyWoman/healthywoman_54.html) > [@](#): > > If the two Ohio women can prove their case[that Wal-Mart employees, acting on company policies, asked them to leave the store because they were breastfeeding], Wal-Mart will face a tough legal road, due to precedents set in similar cases. Around the country, scores of women have sued and won the right to breastfeed in public. > In 1977, Long Island resident Barbara Damon successfully sued her local pool for kicking her out and revoking her $85 family membership after she was caught nursing her 2-month-old. > “I’m looking forward to women being comfortable feeding nursing infants in public,” she remarked afterwards. Try to restrict a woman from breastfeeding in public and you can be, and “scores” have been, sued. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cckerberos \* > \*\*So I guess I’m the only one really surprised that women have a right to breastfeed virtually anywhere and anytime in Utah and California? I could certainly understand if it there was an ordinance specifying that doing so in public wasn’t a crime or some such, but I’m very surprised that private institutions are not allowed to prohibit it under any circumstances. \*\* Children get hungry pretty much anywhere and anytime right? Private institutions are allowed to prohibit it under SOME circumstances. Private institutions which set themselves up as public places(such as the lobby of a BK) don’t fit in this category. A members-only club which has “no breastfeeding” in the membership agreement would have a much better chance. Enjoy, Steven On Preview: **Gangster Octopus** , if the BK manager was acting as himself, a private citizen, and exercising his personal right to free speech, then yes, he could probably make the request with impunity. When he tries to invoke the authority of the BK corporation, he runs afoul of the laws which govern what the BK corporation may and may not do in the sections of their resturants deemed “public” spaces. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/72 "2003-11-12T22:54:16Z")
This issue, really, is one of decency. Yes, it’s healthy, and normal for a woman to breastfeed her child, I get that, really, but to do it in a place where other people eat, is a social faux pas at best, and blatantly insensitive at worst. Perhaps BK was wrong, according to Utah Law, but honestly, the lack of decorum on the part of the woman is staggering. If breast feeding is such a private act of bonding between mother and child, why do it in public view? More over, why CONTINUE to do it after you were decently asked not to do it? There is a line that we walk as civilized people in a society, public displays of private things, especially where people dine, is patently unacceptable, and crosses that line. So do most public displays of affection, FWIW. I’m sorry this woman was harangued. I’m sorry the other diners felt the need to complain. I’m sorry that when asked, this woman failed to respond to the requests of the management, and I’m sorry the management felt pressured to ask. The honest truth is though, that despite the parameters of the law, both parties were equally to blame for the fracas, really, end of story. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/73 "2003-11-12T22:56:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gangster Octopus \* > Well, I would hope that is legal, just as I would hope that the person tells the manager to “Fuck off.” Your hope notwithstanding, it’s not legal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/74 "2003-11-12T22:59:53Z")
There is nothing remotely “indecent” about breastfeeding. It is grossly offensive and _indecent_ to ask a mother _not_ to feed her baby. The woman did absolutely nothing wrong and deserves zero blame. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/75 "2003-11-12T23:01:53Z")
**buttonjockey308** , you may think this is merely a matter of differing opinions. Given that the people of the state of Utah saw fit to express their will that breastfeeding be permitted in public, even in restaurants, your opinion that it’s indecent doesn’t hold much sway. You’re welcome to your opinion, of course; the people of Utah don’t agree with you, and it is their voice that matters as far as making the rules go. And under the rules, a woman has every right to breastfeed in public without the slightest regard for your outraged reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/76 "2003-11-12T23:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Your hope notwithstanding, it’s not legal. \*\* Well, I think that sucks. ---
**Author:** ![angelicate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@angelicate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/angelicate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/77 "2003-11-12T23:45:01Z")
As much as it’s an act of bonding, it’s also an act of nourishing your child. What are you supposed to do, run out to the car (and cover with a blanket, lest someone look in the window and see you feeding your child) every time baby gets hungry? Run to the bathroom? Would you like to eat in a public restroom? bring a bottle along? A lot of women are not able to produce enough milk through pumping, in a reasonable amount of time, to want to prepare a bottle each time you have to leave the house. Also, speaking from my own personal experience, and from knowing other women with exclusively breastfed babies, a lot of them will not take a bottle. It is not what they’re used to and they don’t like it, and instead of eating, they will scream. (But then, we’d be offending someone by having the baby scream.) How is feeding your child indecent and insensitive? That is ridiculous. Everyone agrees that breastfeding is best for babies, as long as they don’t have to see it. It offends me when I go to a restaurant and someone is chewing with their mouth open. I simply look away. It’s not that hard. And in response to the BK vs coffee shop question, I’d be offended regardless of the company in question. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/78 "2003-11-12T23:49:29Z")
**Gangster Octopus** : Why? Why should the corporation be allowed to go around issuing requests, more like demands actually, that they have no legal standing to enforce? Should it be legal for me to go around representing myself as an employee of “companyname” and asking all people doing business with “companyname” to stop doing “something perfectly legitimate” in a public place? Surely, because they have no right to restrict the behavior(it is a public place after all) me making the requests is some sort of harassment at least. Personal freedom of speech does not fully extend to corporations. Even personal freedom of speech doesn’t protect harassment. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/79 "2003-11-13T00:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > \*\*This issue, really, is one of decency. Yes, it’s healthy, and normal for a woman to breastfeed her child, I get that, really, but to do it in a place where other people eat, is a social faux pas at best, and blatantly insensitive at worst. Perhaps BK was wrong, according to Utah Law, but honestly, the lack of decorum on the part of the woman is staggering. \*\* “Lack of decorum” ? Are you kidding me? If I were breastfeeding one of my kids, and someone came up and told me to go do it in the bathroom, I’d tell **them** to go eat in the freaking bathroom, if they’re so damn offended. Do you know what it’s like in fast food bathrooms? Most are just a sink and a toilet, and the toilet is one of those with no lid. Plus it stinks. Just how is Mom supposed to feed her child in there? :rolleyes: For all the people offended by seeing _one woman_ nurse their baby, I bet they’ve been around _ten_ women nursing their babies and not even realized it. Most women are very discreet. It’s very easy to just pull up your shirt, open your bra and pop the baby on. If you’re sitting at a table, someone else would really have to LOOK to see what was going on. You don’t have to cover yourself with a blanket; your shirt covers the top of you, and the baby covers the bottom part. All that shows is a little bit of skin above the nipple, and lots of babies put their hand their to “hold on.” It’s not indecent. Good grief; grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857/80 "2003-11-13T00:18:20Z")
**Autz** , What’s the big deal? BK was just enforcing its “No Outside Food” policy. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Your hope notwithstanding, it’s not legal. \*\* Now you’ve got me thinking. Technically speaking, **Gangster** may be correct, though I doubt anyone ever parses their actions that closely. Could a restaurant decorate their premises with white supremicist posters? I’d probably say yes, so long as the restaurant doesn’t _actually_ discriminate in serving patrons. By the same token, a restaurant probably could, technically, politely _request_ a patron to go elsewhere even for a discriminatory reason so long as it doesn’t actually discriminate in any way when that request is refused. In the U.S., I don’t know that the “hostile environment” doctrine applies outside of the workplace. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burger-kings-lamest-apology-ever/212857.md?page=5)