# Buried in Grain **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357 "2013-03-30T14:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/21 "2013-03-30T23:50:02Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There’s an earlier villain-buried-in-grain scene in Carl Dreyer’s 1932 film **Vampyr**. > > Clearly not the same situation described on NPR. I missed that, and I’ll have to look into it. And yet earlier, Frank Norris’s story ‘The Pit’, from which D. W. Griffith made a 1909 short progressive film, ‘A Corner in Wheat’, which included a gruesome judgmental end for a speculator in an elevator. **[Archive](http://archive.org/details/D.w.Griffith-ACornerInWheat1909)** ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/22 "2013-03-31T00:09:35Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > We used to call it “beating down the grain”, but yes, it is pervasive in the Midwest. “Sticky” (i.e. rotten) corn is bad, but soybean is actually worse for this as it rots even more easily, sticking to the wall and leaving voids which can entrap a worker. As for being preventable, this is absolutely true; methods for bulk grain handling (adapted from sewage handling, energetic/oxidizer processing, and polymer manufacturing) are well established and used by corporate bakeries and food processing plants to minimize human intrusion into the silo, especially while any fill and unload operations. (Aside from danger of being caught in the grain there is the potential for dust inhalation and ignition, and working around unshrouded rotating equipment.) However, this would require retrofitting grain silos which would be a moderately expensive undertaking by an industry that counts pennies and trims costs wherever feasible. > > BTW, all of the rotten cereals that are extracted are not disposed as unusable. They are processed to make “vegetable” oil and shortening; bear that in mind next time you are chowing down on some deep-fried or commercially baked food. You are literally eating rotten sludge from the bottom of the barrel. > > Stranger Excuse me if this sounds impertinent but… Is there any god damned subject on the face of the planet that you are not an expert on? Jeez Louise. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not doubting you… I’m just in awe. If this were a TV show though, you would have just jumped the shark. Anyway, yeah, dangerous shit that seems like it could/should be preventable. I can’t believe I’m the first one to point out that the guy’s name who died in the **grain silo** was Whitebread. Crazy. . ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/23 "2013-03-31T00:21:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Wheat and corn are heavily subsidized, precisely because they are commercially viable for export, feed, sugar production and byproducts for fuel. I would have thought it was fairly clear in Economics 101 that heavy subsidies were not an indicator of commercially viable. > [@](#): > > You don’t see healthier foods being subsidized, That’s right, there have never been subsidies on milk, eggs, vegetables or fruit. :smack: > [@](#): > > nor are people dying because they got buried in an apple cart. The granular products e.g. grains, flour, sugar, fertiliser etc are more dangerous because small particle size means less air, and the silos tend to be larger. But you can get caught in a feed hopper conveying apples, oranges, ginger, pineapples, potatoes, tomatoes etc under exactly the same conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/24 "2013-03-31T00:22:38Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Excuse me if this sounds impertinent but… Is there any god damned subject on the face of the planet that you are not an expert on? Jeez Louise. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not doubting you… I’m just in awe. If this were a TV show though, you would have just jumped the shark. > > Anyway, yeah, dangerous shit that seems like it could/should be preventable. I spent a summer “beating” grain silos and lumping sack feed when I was a year younger than the subject of the news story linked in the o.p. Our only safety equipment was a length of clothesline which was held by one hand (which would have been completely ineffectual if you actually got stuck) and ill-fitting duck boots. I’m a little surprised that it is still permitted today, but as pointed out earlier, agriculture is largely exempt from OSHA regulations, even though the cost of compliance would likely be well paid in reduction of lost time and medical costs due to injury. It is just short-sighted penny pinching that allows this to continue to be a problem. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/25 "2013-03-31T00:32:46Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > The granular products e.g. grains, flour, sugar, fertiliser etc are more dangerous because small particle size means less air, and the silos tend to be larger. But you can get caught in a feed hopper conveying apples, oranges, ginger, pineapples, potatoes, tomatoes etc under exactly the same conditions. Fruits and vegetables are not stored in massive bulk conditions, partially because of the damage that would do to the fruit and partially because they just aren’t typically stored for long durations like grains and pulses are. Although there are hazards with handling and processing of fruits and vegetables, these tend to be more of the repetitive injury variety rather than being sucked into a three story silo of pineapples or crushed by fifty bushels or oranges. But yes, fine bulk materials–both food and inert–carry all of the hazards of handling fluids along with some unique hazards (potential explosion from dust, fermentation-induced combustion, toxic gas production and oxygen displacement from rotting grain, mold, et cetera). However, most other industries which do bulk material handling have roundly adopted safety equipment and protocols which limit the degree of hazard. The agricultural industry has, by and large, refused to embrace even the most simple tools and enforce their usage. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/26 "2013-03-31T00:32:57Z")
Jesus Christ, I had to be 16 to work at the local _grocery store_. WTF is wrong with our society when they allow 14-year-olds to work in such hazardous occupations? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/27 "2013-03-31T00:40:19Z")
My mom and her brothers have no sense of smell from the particulates involved in farming. 1930s unpowered amish farm. She also lost a sister and eventually her mother to a kerosene fire from her sister filling a lamp and lighting it without checking to see if there was any kerosene spilled on the [[oilcloth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilcloth)] tablecloth. It took 3 years for my grandmother to finish dying. When growing up and visiting the various farming cousins [my fathers side also had farmers in the married in side of the family] we were very restricted on where on the farm we could play. Absolutely nowhere need cows, pigs or horses, nowhere near the silos or feed bins. Pretty much we could play with chickens, in the small kitchen garden and in the grass yard. On the farm behind our summer houses on the lake when I was 6 and again when I was about 11 farmers got killed by falling into farm equipment. Back then unless it was reasonably minor [missing hand or foot] they didn’t bother calling an ambulance, they called for the undertakers to come haul the body away to stitch it back together for the funeral. With a call out of half an hour, you tend to bleed out. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/28 "2013-03-31T18:37:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Jesus Christ, I had to be 16 to work at the local _grocery store_. WTF is wrong with our society when they allow 14-year-olds to work in such hazardous occupations? Mostly because farm kids grow up working on their family farms, so there is an assumption that they know what they are doing. Plus a fear that regulations preventing hiring kids would be expanded to prevent kids from working for their parents. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/29 "2013-03-31T19:08:10Z")
Would mandated safety gear, perhaps something similar to climbing equipment with strong lines connecting workers to the top, prevent these tragedies? If so, it seems like a pretty inexpensive way to save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/30 "2013-03-31T19:23:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Would mandated safety gear, perhaps something similar to climbing equipment with strong lines connecting workers to the top, prevent these tragedies? If so, it seems like a pretty inexpensive way to save lives. Safety gear is required, and in the article linked in the o.p., was available but unused. However, the real solution is to minimize personnel intrusion into the loaded silo at all, and to prohibit entry during fill and unload operations at all. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/31 "2013-03-31T19:40:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Safety gear is required, and in the article linked in the o.p., was available but unused. However, the real solution is to minimize personnel intrusion into the loaded silo at all, and to prohibit entry during fill and unload operations at all. > > Stranger IIRC, the entry during loading and unloading is also prohibited, and is as ignored as all the other safety equipment and rules. The real solution is to make the penalties for disobeying them so draconian that companies watching their bottom lines will decide that it’s no longer worth it to disobey them. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/32 "2013-03-31T20:04:37Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > IIRC, the entry during loading and unloading is also prohibited, and is as ignored as all the other safety equipment and rules. The real solution is to make the penalties for disobeying them so draconian that companies watching their bottom lines will decide that it’s no longer worth it to disobey them. This is exactly right. It’s reasons like this why the offshore drilling and exploration industry is so damn careful not to spill a drop of hydraulic fluid into the ocean or whatever, because the fines for even a trivial infraction just aren’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/33 "2013-03-31T23:03:02Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > has anyone else heard/read the NPR series Buried In Grain? You gotta admit, it’d make a hell of a reality show. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/34 "2013-04-01T01:06:52Z")
When I was in high school something like this happened. A school visiting from another state was visiting the local silo and the kids were running around inside on the rice. Unfortunately a worker who was unaware of the visit turned on the fans. One kid was sucked under and a number were trapped. I really feel for the poor bugger who flipped the switch. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/35 "2013-04-01T02:05:25Z")
In any real industry, people would lose their jobs and go to jail. The stories are just horrifying. I work in many, many factories and have never seen ANY equivalent accepted safety hazard. It’s just beyond belief someone would allow such a hideously dangerous activity to take place. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/36 "2013-04-01T02:50:16Z")
My first thought reading the OP was “What countries is this happening in?” imagining various developing nations. Then I read on. Holy crap! ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/37 "2013-04-01T02:51:41Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > I would have thought it was fairly clear in Economics 101 that heavy subsidies were not an indicator of commercially viable. Reasons for ag subsidies per my understanding: [ol] [li]Residual cultural affection for farming and idyllic rural life, from the Jeffersonian ideal on up.[/li][li]Agricultural states have lots of senators.[/li][li]Internally, cheap food is a hell of a safety valve for preventing widespread dissent; externally, cheap food is a hell of a foreign relations lever via aid or export.[/li][li]As the rest of this thread is testament to, farming is a miserable occupation, and without free capital and security, the mechanization and consolidation that makes farming tolerable to our modern sensibilities wouldn’t be possible.[/li][/ol] How are the large OSHA fines being reduced/overturned? Is it an administrative appeals process? That seems to be where the pitting belongs. I don’t hold much hope that these families are able to get much cash or any solace from wrongful death civil lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/38 "2013-04-01T04:15:57Z")
I found the ending to “Witness” very powerful and scary because I knew a kid who died in a grain bin accident. Was silent all the way back to rez. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/39 "2013-04-01T17:16:51Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Mostly because farm kids grow up working on their family farms, so there is an assumption that they know what they are doing. Plus a fear that regulations preventing hiring kids would be expanded to prevent kids from working for their parents. So? That still doesn’t mean they should be allowed to work the dangerous stuff. Hell, you had to be 18 to use the _box crusher_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357/40 "2013-04-01T17:28:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So? That still doesn’t mean they should be allowed to work the dangerous stuff. Hell, you had to be 18 to use the _box crusher_. This. Really, this seems dangerous enough that minors shouldn’t be allowed to do it, period. And anyone working inside these grain silos should have safety harnesses tied into some secure point well above the grain, so that they’d at least be able to hang onto their safety rope if they started getting pulled under. People shouldn’t be dying for want of safety measures whose cost is trivial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/buried-in-grain/654357.md?page=3)