# Burn it down! (Republicans defund MO libraries) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576 "2023-04-12T12:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NinthAcolyte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ninthacolyte/32/13676_2.png) [@NinthAcolyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinthAcolyte)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/21 "2023-04-12T18:44:15Z")
Librarians are starting to desert. I doubt the effects will be felt for a while - it’s an overcrowded field and there are way more qualified librarians than there are available positions - but I think that’s going to change. The shortage of teachers is coming to libraries in a big way. I’m uncertain about returning to public libraries myself. I’ve made what I think is a wise career-move by transitioning to academic librarianship, but my heart remains at the public reference desk… I kind of thought I’d wind up back on the public side someday. Now I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/22 "2023-04-12T19:12:33Z")
For all the fevered screeching, it looks like they’re just cutting off a piddly little amount of funding that the state gave to the libraries. $4.5 million? That’s not even a sixth of the Kansas City Public LIbrary system’s funding ($26 million and some change). And that’s not even including the rest of the state. My guess is that the $4.5 million is some kind of special grants, etc… that they can cut off and look like they’re shrinking government, sticking it to the poor, screwing other races, etc… without _actually_ accomplishing very much in terms of actual library funding. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/23 "2023-04-12T19:26:41Z")
Our county library has an annual late winter seed distribution. Anyone who requests them gets about 30 packets of flower and vegetable seeds to do with as they wish, no need to bring boxes of tomatoes and flower bouquets back to the library. If our board of stupidvisors ever gets in a huff over library policies and tries to cut funding, I’m going to show up at meetings with a bullhorn. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And yet, there are ‘moderates’ who object to referring to prominent Republicans and the GOP as a whole as ‘fascist’ or ‘proto-fascist’, because those terms are ‘too extreme’ and might alienate voters on the fence. No, it mostlly has to do with denaturing the meaning of fascism and grievously insulting the memories of people who suffered and died at the hands of true fascist regimes, with the side “benefit” of worsening political polarization. As a previous poster noted, the Missouri Senate was set to restore the library funds. I don’t recall the Reichstag overruling Hitler when he tried to block showings of _The Great Dictator_ at the Berlin Public Library. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/24 "2023-04-12T19:33:16Z")
Well, yes, you’d have to be pretty old to remember the time when the Reichstag was overruling Hitler. You can read about that time in books, though. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/25 "2023-04-12T19:56:47Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My guess is that the $4.5 million is some kind of special grants, etc… that they can cut off and look like they’re shrinking government, sticking it to the poor, screwing other races, etc… without _actually_ accomplishing very much in terms of actual library funding. Not according to [KOMU.com](https://www.komu.com/news/state/public-libraries-face-loss-of-state-funding-as-budget-receives-initial-approval/article_5453fc6c-ce40-11ed-b5e9-779a2ca96521.html) > Rep. Cody Smith (R-Carthage), the House Budget Committee chairman, proposed to [cut the entire $4.5 million budget](https://www.komu.com/tncms/asset/editorial/7c6d6906-3f57-5f1d-8a0f-be45837c75a0/) slated for Missouri libraries last week after the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed a lawsuit to overturn a new Missouri law. > [@Chronos](#): > > You can read about that time in books, though. Not if they have their way. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/26 "2023-04-12T20:13:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > No, it mostlly has to do with denaturing the meaning of fascism and grievously insulting the memories of people who suffered and died at the hands of true fascist regimes, with the side “benefit” of worsening political polarization. It is not “denaturing the meaning of fascism” or “grievously insulting the memories of people who suffered and died” to recognized that the current GOP is engaging in the very practices and mechanisms by which fascist regimes have previously risen, including suppression of views and opinions they oppose by threat of violence and use of executive power, demonizing marginalized minorities as a way of consolidating support, ‘dog-whistling’ to extremists while conditioning more mainstream supporters into accepting casual racism and bigotry, and purging anyone from their ranks who dares to object or point out hypocrisy. In fact, in my opinion it is offensive to the memory of those who suffered under fascism to not call out the emergence of clearly proto-fascistic movements out of some delicacy of not wanting to be seen as being alarmist. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/27 "2023-04-12T21:24:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > No, it mostlly has to do with denaturing the meaning of fascism and grievously insulting the memories of people who suffered and died at the hands of true fascist regimes, with the side “benefit” of worsening political polarization. How is that whole “Never again” thing supposed to work, if the only time it’s acceptable to call out fascism is _after_ they’ve started the genocide? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/28 "2023-04-12T21:56:20Z")
This isn’t about books but it’s along similar lines, namely that America’s soaring gun problem and the loss of women’s reproductive rights is entirely due to the fact that Republicans must cater to their extremist base regardless of the consequences, and that base is anti-education, anti-intellectual, anti-abortion, and stridently pro-gun. Republicans are now literally the party of crazy, and if that threatens their mainstream support, why, it’s time to do some more fiddling with the electoral process so that the correct results continue to be achieved. > **[There's a reason for the GOP silence on abortion and guns | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/11/politics/republican-silence-abortion-mass-shooting/index.html)** > > Yet another mass shooting and a new blow to nationwide abortion rights left Republicans facing pointed questions on two of the most emotive issues dominating American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/29 "2023-04-12T22:12:23Z")
A favorite label used to be “Nazis”, until massive overuse and recognition of Godwin’s Law shamed at least most Nazi-shouters into curbing their rhetoric. Now “fascists” are the new “Nazis”. Reasons for this labeling have a lot less to do with realistic efforts to ramp up awareness among the unenlightened, but mainly fall into three categories: 1. It feels really good to attack political enemies as “fascists”. 2. It’s perceived as helping to rally those who already agree with you. 3. It feels _really_ good to attack political enemies as “fascists”. It’s not as though such tactics are unknown on the Right. I keep running across commenters on online news stories who rail about Biden et al being “Marxists”. “Genocide” has been creeping into what passes for political discourse as well, not just among the Left. Marjorie Taylor Greene has been going on about how "Democrats want Republicans dead. And they have already started the killings.” Want to be part of the hysterical extremist chorus? Be my guest. Most rational people have been tuning it out. When and if the real thing emerges, they’ll be less apt to be convinced of it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/30 "2023-04-12T22:20:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Libraries in neighboring Arkansas are funded by county property taxes, although there is a state library, presumably funded by the state, that helps them out. Didn’t help the Jonesboro library. Craighead County voted to defund and other counties are considering the same for theirs. And the state is stepping in to very likely mandate a state-wide book challenge policy to apply to all public libraries in any event, which is likely to tie up even more resources even in the relative few counties that aren’t already considering defunding. County funding vs state funding doesn’t much matter when the insanity exists at all levels. I’m fortunate to have grown up when the Clintons actually made some progress on education in Arkansas but I feel sorry for the kids stuck there now. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/31 "2023-04-12T22:34:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When and if the real thing emerges, they’ll be less apt to be convinced of it. What would “the real thing” look like? How would it look different from what’s happening today? And possibly most pertinent, when the real thing does emerge, what would you say to people who insist you’re being hysterical, and you should reserve accusations of fascism for when the “real thing” emerges? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/32 "2023-04-12T22:40:52Z")
And even public schools in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/33 "2023-04-12T23:08:04Z")
Not super relevant, but the parking garage of the Kansas City Public Library looks like this. That alone is reason to keep it funded. [![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_EgvfUZTIzlQDMPM5IiN_s56H2kiFdmzFyvLH4HOATQ&usqp=CAU&ec=48665699) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_EgvfUZTIzlQDMPM5IiN_s56H2kiFdmzFyvLH4HOATQ&usqp=CAU&ec=48665699) [![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDqqr8WtbW49HNJeMupEggWCcGysrWVBRNYqO12XHESw&usqp=CAU&ec=48665699) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDqqr8WtbW49HNJeMupEggWCcGysrWVBRNYqO12XHESw&usqp=CAU&ec=48665699) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/34 "2023-04-12T23:15:31Z")
That is the coolest thing I’ve ever seen about Kansas City (Missouri). When did they do that? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/35 "2023-04-12T23:20:17Z")
I’m not from there, but I just looked it up and the answer is 2004. It’s called the Community Bookshelf. Here’s an Atlas Obscura page with a few more pictures if you’re interested. > **[Kansas City Library's Giant Bookshelf](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/kansas-city-library-s-giant-bookshelf)** > > Community bookshelf of 25-foot-tall book spines. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/36 "2023-04-12T23:31:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > 1. It feels really good to attack political enemies as “fascists”. > 2. It’s perceived as helping to rally those who already agree with you. > 3. It feels _really_ good to attack political enemies as “fascists”. You forgot an option: [4. These people are literally incipient fascists, engaging in fascist cosplay, sporting uniquely identifiable fascist symbology, and advocating fascist-like political views which are fundamentally based upon cultivating fear and hatred of marginalized people to consolidate their power base while undermining the essential democratic norms and subverting the judiciary, and then gaslighting everyone who questions them by claiming that it is all just errant nonsense by the liberal media.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/37 "2023-04-12T23:33:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > A favorite label used to be “Nazis”, until massive overuse and recognition of Godwin’s Law shamed at least most Nazi-shouters into curbing their rhetoric. Now “fascists” are the new “Nazis”. The current crop of Republicans are not Nazis. They are, however, fascists. The Nazis were one particular group of fascists, but there were and are many others. Don’t point out differences between the Republicans and Nazis to prove that they aren’t fascists; Mussolini, Tojo, and Franco weren’t Nazis, either. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/38 "2023-04-12T23:39:08Z")
From a link I followed from that link, regarding Green Eggs and Ham: Banned from 1965-1991 in China for “it’s portrayal of early Marxism” and the ban wasn’t lifted until the author’s death in 1991. Banned in California in 1992 because it promoted a seductive homosexual agenda. Whatee what? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/39 "2023-04-13T00:00:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Nazis were one particular group of fascists, but there were and are many others. Don’t point out differences between the Republicans and Nazis to prove that they aren’t fascists; The unifying concept of Fascism was that the government act as a union, for the people, against corporations. While I’ll grant that Trump did things like threatening manufacturers who were thinking about offshoring, which would fall under that banner, acts like banning abortion or burning books are the acts of authoritarians. One aspect of all of the famous Fascists was that they devolved into authoritarianism. But, likewise, monarchs and the Chinese Communist party have devolved into authoritarianist behavior - censoring works, punishing groups of people for failed subservience, etc. While I’m skeptical of the value of any thought system that tends to lead towards authoritarianism, and so I wouldn’t encourage or defend Fascism in any way, the principal issue is the authoritarian part not the “working for the people against businesses” part. Basically, there’s no need to redefine Fascism as something other than what it is. There’s a perfectly good word, with the correct meaning, and there’s no reason not to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576/40 "2023-04-13T00:06:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can read about that time in books, though. For now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-it-down-republicans-defund-mo-libraries/982576.md?page=3)