# Burn the land and boil the sea. (R.I.P., Firefly) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341 "2003-12-21T18:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![sciguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sciguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciguy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/121 "2004-01-10T06:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*(1)Yes! > (2)No, dammit! > How much air gets into a brass cartridge? You can soak them in water and they will fire. > > Whats-his-name laments on the CD, “We _did_ have someone tell us it needed air to fire…” \*\* My humble apologies. Thanks for fighting my ignorance. With all the gobble-de-gook I’m used to hearing on Star Trek, this sounded plausible enough to slip by. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/122 "2004-01-10T06:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*I maintain, at least within the fevered confines of my brain, that Vera used some sort of weird future gunpowder that’s vastly more powerful than the stuff we use today, but which doesn’t work in a vacuum. \*\* My justification is that Jayne knew the gun wasn’t designed for use in space, but didn’t know why. Most likely the gun used regular lubricant in its moving parts; a few minutes of exposure to vacuum would cause the lubricant to evaporate. We have the same problem at our lab when using mechanical components in vacuum chambers. What bothered me more was the “net” for catching spacecraft. Since it’s so conspicuous, it’s only useful for catching disabled spacecraft headed directly towards it. And it isn’t even bulletproof. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/123 "2004-01-10T16:12:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\* We have the same problem at our lab when using mechanical components in vacuum chambers. > \*\* That’s an interesting point, but shuttle arms, tracking antennas on spacecraft and airlock doors (which Jayne should know about) come to mind. I don’t keep firearms lubricated, althouygh I’m sure Jayne likes his…I mean _really, really likes_ his better than I. I can’t imagine a BAR requiring that much lubrucation being designed to work in a rough enviroment. BTW, it Vera a BAR? What equipment do you use in a vacumn chamber? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/124 "2004-01-10T16:38:08Z")
> [@](#): > > What bothered me more was the “net” for catching spacecraft. Since it’s so conspicuous, it’s only useful for catching disabled spacecraft headed directly towards it. And it isn’t even bulletproof. Good point. But wasn’t that little minx who “married” Mal working in cahoots with the scavengers? She successfully incapacitated the crew and put the ship on a course right for the net; I got the impression she’d done it once or twice before. Anyway, I got caught up in the action and didn’t think of that. The bit about the gun needing air was silly, though, and an unnecessary complication; doesn’t make sense unless Joss Whedon actually thought that was true. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/125 "2004-01-10T16:53:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\* I got the impression she’d done it once or twice before. > \*\* One got the impression that she had done several things before, but I digress and verge on sexism. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/126 "2004-01-10T17:00:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > **But wasn’t that little minx who “married” Mal working in cahoots with the scavengers? She successfully incapacitated the crew and put the ship on a course right for the net; I got the impression she’d done it once or twice before.** True, but she could have just as easily killed the crew and stopped the ship. It’s the old “unnecessarily slow and complex killing machine” plot device. I think the “gun needs air” thing was to show how smart Mal is, and perhaps to explain why the bad gus were not expecting it. Although I admit, none of this bothered me until the 3rd time I watched that episode. As for the moving parts in vacuum, I meant machines don’t work well in vacuum unless specifically designed for it. I work with astronomical X-ray instruments, many of which need to be tested in vacuum. We have to buy the expensive vacuum-compatible versions of filter wheels, motorized X-Y stages and such. But I don’t know anything aboug guns so I have no idea if lubrication is an issue at all. Some things do work fine in vacuum, like the Omega watches used by Apollo astronauts. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/127 "2004-01-10T17:41:56Z")
I just finished the last DVD of the boxed set, and, man, am I ever depressed that there probably won’t be any more. Cast, story, effects, sense of detail, cinematography and music; I’ve rarely seen anything made for TV, and ostensibly in the action/sci-fi genre, that had such interesting characters and emotional depth. While I recognize that _Firefly_ to some extent rehashed themes of the extended family that Whedon and Co. had already done in _Buffy_ and _Angel_, for some reason it just seemed to work better here; while I could admire _Buffy_ for its defiance of some of the hidebound conventions of TV, I never felt compelled to watch the way I did with _Firefly_. Maybe I just like sci-fi better than supernatural fantasy. I guess I’ll join the bandwagon by saying that _Ariel_, _Out of Gas_, _War Stories_ and _Objects in Space_ were absolute classics, but there wasn’t a real stinker in the bunch. IMO, _The Train Job_ and _Jaynestown_ came pretty close to being filler, but even there, the dialogue and the vivid characters made them worth watching at least once. Too many great scenes and lines of dialogue to count, but I think my favorite bits in the whole series were the sequence at the end of _Ariel_, when Mal shows Jayne the error of his ways, and the various speeches made by the bounty hunter and River in _Objects in Space_. > [@](#): > > Okay, everyone. Which was your favorite of the unaired episodes? The unaired ones were Trash, The Message, and Heart of Gold. My favorite was The Message, although I did like the return of Mrs. Reynolds and the nudity in Trash. I’d say _Trash_, for the caper story, effects and the always-entertaining interplay between Mal and Saffron. ---
**Author:** ![hypnoboth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hypnoboth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hypnoboth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/128 "2004-01-10T21:22:44Z")
OK, I’ve got the boxed set. Where the hell is the individual episode commentary? I can’t find it for the life of me, and I am going CRAZY! Is it an Easter egg somewhere? Help! ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/129 "2004-01-10T22:03:12Z")
When you select an episode to watch, it goes to a screen that says **Play Episode - Language Selection - Scene Selection**. The commentaries are under **Language Selection**. (only about half of the episodes have the commentary). Eric ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/130 "2004-01-10T22:06:16Z")
**hypnoboth** , you can get to the individual episode’s commentary tracks (them what has 'em, anyway) by selecting the episode you want to watch, then selecting “Language Options.” ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/131 "2004-01-10T22:41:43Z")
Mal had the same issue with Saffron’s elaborate deception, remember? She basically responded that scrapping the ship wasn’t the point. I think she gets off on tricking people. As to the net being very visible, I don’t think it’s intended for anything but scrapping disabled ships. Hiding it isn’t important because, what with space being freakin’ huge and all, I doubt that much is going by that way unless Saffron (or an equivalent) sends it there. Definitely check out the Joss Whedon commentary on Objects in Space… it makes an already beautiful episode even more so. Jubel Early is my favorite villain on television. So whaddaya think his trip is? Joss indicates in the commentary that he’s very intuitive, but not psychic. I would like to blatantly ignore this and speculate. A lot of people thought he was psychic when this first came out, some speculating that the same thing happened to him as would have happened to River had Simon not rescued her. I’ve always suspected he’s prone to going adrift in his own psyche and losing track of what’s actually going on… he doesn’t pay very close attention to others talking sometimes, and he has a tendency to ask things like, “Does that seem right to you?” or “Does that make sense?” almost as though he’s confirming his reality. My dad, on the other hand (another Firefly convert I got with DVDS… that makes three!) thinks that it’s all an act to throw the crew off-guard. Some people even thought Jubal might be deaf (“Am I a lion?” “That’s not it at all, I’m a bounty hunter.” and so forth). Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/132 "2004-01-10T22:43:39Z")
Er, make that partially deaf. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/133 "2004-01-10T23:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Number Six \* > \*\*I decided to rent one of the discs to see what it’s like; the video store didn’t have the first one, so I have disc two. I’ll watch it and see how it strikes me. \*\* So we haven’t heard back from **Number Six**. I guess he didn’t like it. Although he should have gotten disc three, that’s the best one… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/134 "2004-01-11T02:56:56Z")
I liked the episodes on the disc I rented. Not enought to buy them if I didn’t already have the set, but enough to rent discs one and three and watch those. They were better than the usual tv sci-fi, but not enough better that I’d want to see them more than once. I exchanged the set I got for Christmas for credit towards _The Prisoner_ megaset. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/135 "2004-01-11T03:19:46Z")
So, who had him prisoner. his side or someone else? What was the signifigance of the bicycle? ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/136 "2004-01-11T03:23:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*What equipment do you use in a vacumn chamber? \*\* Isn’t it obvious? Vacumns 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/137 "2004-01-11T03:45:15Z")
Thanks, MacTech. Your job is like the Maytag guy, you sit around thinking up jokes? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/138 "2004-01-11T07:28:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*So, who had him prisoner. his side or someone else? > What was the signifigance of the bicycle? \*\* [spoiler]Nobody was holding him prisoner, at least not in The Village. He, or at least his subconscious mind, was running things all along, and The Village existed only in his own mind. The whole thing is an elaborate metaphor for what’s going on in the real world. He is being interrogated and tortured while he escapes into a corner of his mind where the interrogators cannot reach him. But his mental escape isn’t perfect, so some of the real world manages to seep through. Each episode is a different tactic the interrogators in the real world have tried, but interpreted through the elaborate fantasy world he’s set up for himself to escape into. In the last episode, the fantasy breaks down when he realizes that he is Number One. The ending either means he’s mentally escaped into a new, more complete fantasy, or returned to the real world. I call this interpretation the _Brazil_ version. OR The Village is an elaborate fantasy world constructed by his captors for his benefit as a means of interrogation because they knew they could not break him by ordinary means. The ending, finding out he is Number One, represents his realization that nothing that’s happening to him is real, and his mental return to the real world or escape from this mental construction into a new one. This is _The Matrix_ interpretation. IMHO, the _Brazil_ version is a bit more solid. As to who’s doing the interrogation, it doesn’t matter. Part of the point McGoohan was trying to make was that both sides of the cold war were alike in a lot of ways, particularly in how they saw people not as people, but as assets to be used and discarded when no longer useful. The idea that either side could be doing this to him, treating him not as a person with value, but merely as a source of valuable information, is central to the show’s thesis. The bicycle may be symbolic of his ability to leave this fantasy world anytime he choses to even if he doesn’t understand that yet.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![maikai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@maikai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maikai)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341/139 "2004-01-12T07:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Gorram it, when is that movie gonna be made? [Don’t know when it will be out, but…](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379786/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burn-the-land-and-boil-the-sea-r-i-p-firefly/220341.md?page=6)