# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/281 "2010-08-31T17:08:28Z")
And the people who implemented Communism did it on the basis of actually talking to Marx…? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/282 "2010-08-31T17:11:33Z")
I honestly have no idea where you’re getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/283 "2010-08-31T17:12:56Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Or it could be socio-economic factors, not getting in on the New World action, endemic poverty, living in a damn sand bucket, colonization and de-colonization, intermittent meddling by the Western powers backing up this or that petty tyrant… Islam exists in every corner of the planet. Your thesis doesn’t explain why other religions are not affected the same way. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And the West became more open and enlightened because humanist philosophers clashed against religion and broke its yoke on society, because two World Wars liberated women, because hippies fucked in the mud and because scientists defied Church interdicts in secrecy. It has nothing to do with the benevolent guiding light of Christianity or any sort of religion whatsoever. The enlightenment exists because none of the other religions currently go ape-shit over cartoons. The historical perspective is that modern Islam is stuck in the middle ages. There hasn’t been a Martin Luther moment and it doesn’t look like there is going to be one anytime soon. > [@Kobal2](#): > > People don’t go to religion to find a way to act, they act some way and then make religion say it’s OK. It’s what happened in the Crusades, it’s what happened during the Catholic/Protestant wars, it’s what happens with the Taliban, and it’s what happens with that stupid book burning. People absolutely go to religion to find a way to act. To suggest there isn’t a connection between terrorist acts and a religious authoritative figure is not arguable. The difference here is that one leader destroys a book and another leader pronounces a death sentence on someone for writing a book. One is a freedom of expression, the other is murder. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/284 "2010-08-31T18:34:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I honestly have no idea where you’re getting at. People do things based upon what is written all the time. Editorials, newspapers, text books, and yes, even holy books. The difference being is that the latter supposedly has a god for the authority for its claims. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/285 "2010-08-31T18:41:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Islam exists in every corner of the planet. Your thesis doesn’t explain why other religions are not affected the same way. They are. Or did you think the Tontons Macoutes were Muslims ? > [@](#): > > The enlightenment exists because none of the other religions currently go ape-shit over cartoons. The historical perspective is that modern Islam is stuck in the middle ages. There hasn’t been a Martin Luther moment and it doesn’t look like there is going to be one anytime soon. Right. The other religions currently go ape-shit over Korans, apparently 😉 > [@Kobal2](#): > > People absolutely go to religion to find a way to act. To suggest there isn’t a connection between terrorist acts and a religious authoritative figure is not arguable. The difference here is that one leader destroys a book and another leader pronounces a death sentence on someone for writing a book. One is a freedom of expression, the other is murder. Yes. Religious leaders. Not religion, not the holy book, not their own God either. When Urban II called for the first crusade, nothing he said had any backing whatsoever in the religion. Jesus never said Jerusalem was any special, he never said to go and kill people who didn’t believe in him, he never said those who killed infidels would go to Heaven, and so on and so forth. But Urban did, and going over to take the rich Levant seemed like a profitable entreprise so hey, let’s Crusade for God ! It’s what God wants ! That’s my whole point : people follow their charismatic leaders, their own wants and needs and fears, they never follow the religion. If Christians did what Christ \*actually \*told them to do in their holy book, there would be no rich Christian, no Christian soldier, and certainly no Christian book burnings. Knowing this, I’m inclined to roll my eyes when you or anyone else tells me “yes, them Muslims are angry and violent, that’s because it says in their Koran to be like that”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/286 "2010-08-31T19:41:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Right. The other religions currently go ape-shit over Korans, apparently 😉 The difference is, and I pointed it out, nobody’s life was threatened by the book burning whereas the cartoons sparked riots that killed people. I think flag burning and book burning are pretty childish forms of freedom of speech but that is what they are, freedom of speech. The problem with Islam is that it has not moved forward since it’s inception in many parts of the world. It’s not just a few nut-jobs running around, it’s a great many people. Consider how groups like the Taliban teach it to children to the exclusion of all other knowledge. It may eventually fall under it’s own weight in places like Iran but that day is slow in coming. The religious influence is real and prevalent in the free world. there are no restrictions for Imams such as Anwar al-Awlaki who go to school in the United States and mentor terrorists such as the Ft Hood shooter and the Detroit Christmas bomber. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/287 "2010-08-31T20:23:31Z")
You mention Luther. Are you aware of Martin Luther’s virulently anti-semitic opinions? Know any Lutherans who are virulently anti-semitic because he said so? But wait, the founder of a religious community holds that community in his sway, they cannot evolve and change, according to you, they are forever in thrall. Horseshit. There is a very strong tradition of tolerance and mutual brotherhood in Islam, it is most closely associated with the Sufi tradition. Guess which tradition is most prominently represented in America? Go ahead, take a wild stab. Guess which tradition is most closely associated with the terrible, terrible mosque. Ask them why the came to America, you’re probably going to hear about our values, how we respect and tolerate each others religious views. We sure fooled them, didn’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/288 "2010-09-01T07:48:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mention Luther. Are you aware of Martin Luther’s virulently anti-semitic opinions? Know any Lutherans who are virulently anti-semitic because he said so? But wait, the founder of a religious community holds that community in his sway, they cannot evolve and change, according to you, they are forever in thrall. Horseshit. The Christian religions have evolved considerably since Martin Luther. The same cannot be said of nations with Islamic leadership. > [@elucidator](#): > > There is a very strong tradition of tolerance and mutual brotherhood in Islam, it is most closely associated with the Sufi tradition. Guess which tradition is most prominently represented in America? Go ahead, take a wild stab. Guess which tradition is most closely associated with the terrible, terrible mosque. OK, well, there’s certainly a fair amount of mutual Islamic brotherhood in the news. And it does seem to have a very strong tradition behind it. > [@elucidator](#): > > Ask them why the came to America, you’re probably going to hear about our values, how we respect and tolerate each others religious views. We sure fooled them, didn’t we? In what way have they been fooled? We don’t respect squat when it comes to religion. Primetime TV routinely lampoons Christianity. It’s practically a national sport. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/289 "2010-09-01T12:06:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > Them believing such horseshit does not validate it. It’s still a big pile of stinky stuff. Nobody that doesn’t live in an Islamic state has any obligation to observe the rules of that faith. > > > > Fuck Mohammed. I think he was a pervert, and probably fucked pigs. > > > > Fuck the Koran. It’s just a book. Paper, ink, bindings. > > > > Fuck Allah. He doesn’t exist anyway. > > > > Fuck Islam. They don’t rule the world. People that disagree with their religion have every right to do so. > > When did you turn into **Der Trihs**? > > Who’s saying that nobody has a right to disagree with their religion. There’s a difference between disagreeing with a religion and going out of your way to deliberately insult everyone who believes in it. I would donate one of my copies of the Koran to be burned but I’m using it for toilet paper. Ha ha. Oops there goes verse 4:34, “Allah has ordained… it is OK to beat your wife” and down the toilet that page goes. Got Koran any one, then use it for ass cleaning; it does a body good. Don ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/290 "2010-09-01T12:09:32Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > I would donate one of my copies of the Koran to be burned but I’m using it for toilet paper. Ha ha. > > Oops there goes verse 4:34, “Allah has ordained… it is OK to beat your wife” and down the toilet that page goes. > > Got Koran any one, then use it for ass cleaning; it does a body good. > > Don Is this intended to be an example of how much more enlightened non-Muslims are? ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/291 "2010-09-01T12:13:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mention Luther. Are you aware of Martin Luther’s virulently anti-semitic opinions? Know any Lutherans who are virulently anti-semitic because he said so? But wait, the founder of a religious community holds that community in his sway, they cannot evolve and change, according to you, they are forever in thrall. Horseshit. > > There is a very strong tradition of tolerance and mutual brotherhood in Islam, it is most closely associated with the Sufi tradition. Guess which tradition is most prominently represented in America? Go ahead, take a wild stab. Guess which tradition is most closely associated with the terrible, terrible mosque. > > Ask them why the came to America, you’re probably going to hear about our values, how we respect and tolerate each others religious views. We sure fooled them, didn’t we? Yeah tell me how nice muslims are— The religion of peace making a differance one dead body at a time. 2010.08.31 (Hebron, Israel) - A pregnant woman is among four young Jews gunned down in cold blood by Palestinian terrorists. 2010.08.31 (Badakhshan, Afghanistan) - Three Oxmam humanitarian workers are taken out in a brutal roadside blast. 2010.08.31 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - Three supreme court employees are riddled with bullets by Holy Warriors. 2010.08.30 (Jalalabad, Afghanistan) - The Taliban assassinate a local official with a bomb. 2010.08.30 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Jihadi car bombers kill a civilian. 2010.08.30 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Four guards at the presidential palace are killed during an al-Shabaab mortar attack. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/292 "2010-09-01T12:25:46Z")
Catholics: violent bombing bastards For August - 2010.08.14: Lurgan, County Armagh 2010.08.10: Cookstown, County Tyrone 2010.08.08: Kilkeel, County Down 2010.08.04: Bangor, County Down 2010.08.03: Londonderry, County Derry Of course, unlike Afghanistan there’s no war going on and unlike Iraq and Somalia Northern Ireland actually has a government and stable society. And still the Catholics wage war against a peaceful populace. And of course [this little recent revelation](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11069698). These radical clerics must be stopped! This is fun. We should do this more often. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/293 "2010-09-01T12:29:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > I would donate one of my copies of the Koran to be burned but I’m using it for toilet paper. Ha ha. > > > > Oops there goes verse 4:34, “Allah has ordained… it is OK to beat your wife” and down the toilet that page goes. > > > > Got Koran any one, then use it for ass cleaning; it does a body good. > > > > Don > > Is this intended to be an example of how much more enlightened non-Muslims are? > **[Islam Watch - "Islamic Medicine: Muhammad's Camel-Urine Therapy..." by...](https://www.islam-watch.org/Lennard/Muhammad-Camel-Urine-Therapy-Islamic-medicine.htm)** > > Islam Watch - presenting cutting-edge news, freethinking essays, articles, debates and forum discussions on current affairs of Islam - terrorism, fundamentalism, apostasy (leaving Islam), women's rights, feminism, sharia (Islamic law) Can we burn the Hadith also? Bukhari (hadith) 1:234 Narrated Abu Qilabah: Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine)… Hmmmm interesting…. Muhammad ordered a tribe to drink camel milk-n-pee smoothie as remedy to cure their aversion to dryness? No wonder the middle east is filled with muslim terrorist. Don ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/294 "2010-09-01T12:42:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Catholics: violent bombing bastards > > For August - > > 2010.08.14: Lurgan, County Armagh > 2010.08.10: Cookstown, County Tyrone > 2010.08.08: Kilkeel, County Down > 2010.08.04: Bangor, County Down > 2010.08.03: Londonderry, County Derry > > Of course, unlike Afghanistan there’s no war going on and unlike Iraq and Somalia Northern Ireland actually has a government and stable society. And still the Catholics wage war against a peaceful populace. > > And of course [this little recent revelation](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11069698). These radical clerics must be stopped! > > This is fun. We should do this more often. So you are saying Muslims are just as bad catholic child rapist?— Ok I agree. Ramadan (Islamic holy month) 2010 Scorecard Day 18 > **[Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth](https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)** > > Is Islam really a Religion of Peace? What makes Islam so different? In the name of The Religion of Peace (Islam) Terror Attacks 125 Dead Bodies 535 In the name of All Other Religions in the same time frame Terror Attacks --NONE— Dead Bodies —NONE— However When the Religion of Peace checked into this Mogadishu hotel last week, 33 other souls checked out. YES, Allah likes the blood of non-believers, even more so on his holy days. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/295 "2010-09-01T12:55:04Z")
You agree that Catholics are “just as bad” as Muslims? Good to know. I’d be careful though, **Don**. There are actual Muslims on this messageboard. Sure, they _seem_ like nice people but you and **Magiver** have pulled back the curtain and revealed their true evil violent natures. And since they have to follow every single word in their book to the letter, once they read what you’ve written and check their Qu’rans to see what response they should make it’ll be fatwas at dawn and…well, it’s been nice chatting to you while it lasted. My advice is to start keeping pigs in your house to drive them away, like crosses with vampires. Keep a piglet in your pocket when you go out, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/296 "2010-09-01T13:18:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You agree that Catholics are “just as bad” as Muslims? Good to know. > > I’d be careful though, **Don**. There are actual Muslims on this messageboard. Sure, they _seem_ like nice people but you and **Magiver** have pulled back the curtain and revealed their true evil violent natures. And since they have to follow every single word in their book to the letter, once they read what you’ve written and check their Qu’rans to see what response they should make it’ll be fatwas at dawn and…well, it’s been nice chatting to you while it lasted. > > My advice is to start keeping pigs in your house to drive them away, like crosses with vampires. Keep a piglet in your pocket when you go out, just in case. I’m talking to you, So you are justifying one evil act with another. The catholics blow people all to hell so it is OK if Muslims do it. Or is it Mohammad raped Aisha at age 9 so it is OK for catholic priest to rape children. Make up your mind. It seems to me the Muslims on this board should be giving you a fatwas. And while they are at it have the Muslims give fatwas to Mohammad for all his crimes to humanity. How sick can you get to follow a child rapist in self justification? It is highly symbolic in disgust to Islam to burn the Koran in public (just obey the fire laws). Muslims should not mind, they came to the USA for free speech to spread the word on how Mohammad ordered people to drink camel piss, beat your wife when needed and do a little head chopping to non-believers. Hey I’m just going by what the Koran and Hadith says, that should not bother them. And as for catholic priest that rape children, they are the most horrible people that ever walked on this earth. It is a good thing I’m law abiding. Muslims can put the Koran in the trash and walk away any time they want to, then they can drop the title of muslim—how nice, and the world will be better off. Don ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/297 "2010-09-01T13:32:02Z")
Hmmm, it really is taking longer than we thought, isn’t it… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/298 "2010-09-01T13:39:28Z")
I didn’t say anything about child rape. I was talking about bombings. And my point was that if you can use examples of Muslim bombings (all of yours taken from actual or virtual warzones) to paint the entire religion as violent, one could do the same for the Catholics and other religions. Heck, the Hindus and Catholics of the Tamil Tigers engaged in ethnic cleansing \*against \*Tamil Muslims for years, killing over 370 in the summer of 1990 alone, and sent suicide bombers to Buddhist shrines. And of course we all know what happened to the Bosnian Muslims. Despite your snide insinuations Muslims hardly hold the patent on mindless violence. You are deliberately picking and choosing your data to portray all Muslims as bloodthirsty savages while deliberately ignoring similar barbarity amongst members of other groups, other factors (such as active states of war) that would contribute to the violence and the peaceful co-existence of the vast majority of Muslims in the world with people of other faiths. If you want a serious debate about the links between religious fundamentalism in Islam and the rise of modern terrorism I’ll be happy to have one once you demonstrate some intent to argue in good faith and with relevant facts at your disposal. And why aren’t you talking to the Muslims? They don’t bite (apart from **Angua** and then only during full moons). You might be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/299 "2010-09-01T14:34:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You are deliberately picking and choosing your data to portray all Muslims as bloodthirsty savages while deliberately ignoring similar barbarity amongst members of other groups, other factors (such as active states of war) that would contribute to the violence and the peaceful co-existence of the vast majority of Muslims in the world with people of other faiths. If you want a serious debate about the links between religious fundamentalism in Islam and the rise of modern terrorism I’ll be happy to have one once you demonstrate some intent to argue in good faith and with relevant facts at your disposal. Muslims are people like any other, but the difference is that their book condones what we would consider to be evil actions. Yes, Muslims live in peace with people of other faiths, but usually when they are the minority and have little choice in the matter. Otherwise, when Muslims are the majority you usually have some form of Sharia as the basis for the law and all sorts of nuttiness derived because of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/300 "2010-09-01T14:45:53Z")
Jesus wept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=16)