# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/361 "2010-09-01T22:35:45Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Uganda is trying to change that. So one non-muslim country is trying to implement the death penalty for gays vs the [7](http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/f/DeathPenalty.htm) muslim countries who currently allow it. You think that is an argument in equating Christianity and and Islam as they currently stand then? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/362 "2010-09-01T22:42:42Z")
Sure, you can equate them. They’re both doing it for religious reasons. It’s just a difference in quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/363 "2010-09-01T22:43:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > And where are all the dead gays/non-believers? And by this I mean at the hands of Christians and not Muslims. > > Brandon Teena’s buried in Lincoln, Nebraska. Matthew Shepard was cremated, far as I can ascertain. > > Want more, or is your point addressed, sternly talked to and sent back home weeping ? And this is your example of national intolerance. Are you fucking kidding me? I weep for them just as I weep for the 87 people on American flight 11. I weep for them as I weep for the 60 people on United flight 175. I weep for them as I weep for the 59 people on American flight 77. I weep for them as I weep for the 40 people on flight United flight 93. I weep for them as I weep for the 2,606 people in buildings 1 and 2 of the World Trade center, many of them jumping to their deaths. I weep for them as I weep for the 125 people in the Pentagon. Moving on to another day, I weep for the 13 people shot at Ft Hood by someone who took his religious instructions at an American mosque from an American educated Imam. Want more or, do you want to start a spreadsheet comparing intolerance? Do you have enough tears for this conversation? Should I talk about the children on the plane who were riding without their parents and had to witness the terrorists cutting a flight attendant’s throat before they themselves died listening to the screams of the other passengers as they realized they were flying into a building? Should I post a video of as an American Jew getting his head cut off? Do the tears fall faster if I mention he had a name? The reality is that for all the Pat Robertson’s who run their mouth they are not only harmless but would be met with deadly force by the vast majority of Americans if any attempt were made to do violence. I’ll say it again, the United States is one of the most diverse and tolerant nations on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/364 "2010-09-01T22:46:54Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Sure, you can equate them. They’re both doing it for religious reasons. It’s just a difference in quantity. So, you agree that there are a larger number of nutters who follow Islam then? Btw, no one has said that Christianity doesn’t have its own ‘cross’ to bear. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/365 "2010-09-01T22:49:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > You mean the old testament which both Christians AND Muslims revere? > > Not strictly true, at least not historically. For centuries, Christians regarded the Old Testament as irrelevant, having been superseded by Jesus’ ministry. The revival of interest in the Old Testament is a relatively recent development. I recommend to you _Bible and Sword_ by Barbara Tuchman, of _Guns of August_ fame. Oh, that is so wrong, it’s impossible to say how wrong it is. Read any Christian writing of any tradition (excluding Gnostic & Marcionite) over the past 2000 years and they are obviously steeped in OT references. The NT was certainly seen as given primacy & the OT was interpreted through a Christian bias, but it still was revered as being the undergirding of the New Testament revelation of Christ. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/366 "2010-09-01T22:58:39Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > > > Sure, you can equate them. They’re both doing it for religious reasons. It’s just a difference in quantity. > > So, you agree that there are a larger number of nutters who follow Islam then? Btw, no one has said that Christianity doesn’t have its own ‘cross’ to bear. No, I’d agree there are larger numbers of countries where the Muslim religion determines policy; I’ve met enough Christian nutters that I’d never claim there are less of them than Muslim nutters. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/367 "2010-09-01T23:14:32Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If you don’t think that Pat Robertson wants a Christian equivalent to a religious caliphate in the US then I don’t know what else to tell you. You can start by citing evidence of it instead of pulling opinion out of your ass or at least a certificate that you’re a psychic capable of reading minds. > [@Deeg](#): > > Maybe he hasn’t been convicted of soliciting murder (there you go pulling out the extremists again) but he has constantly placed the blame for US disasters (like 9/11) on our un-Christian ways. If Roberts isn’t extremist enough for you, what about the knuckleheads on Storm Front? What about a presidential candidate who belonged to the KKK? You think the KKK is all puppies and kittens? Since you’re referring to Roberts as an extremist lets go with that. Where is the violence? If you want to talk about the KKK that’s fine. the last time they showed up at my city they required police protection and 100 feet of fencing to keep us from tearing them apart. The level on community tolerance for them is pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/368 "2010-09-01T23:19:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And this is your example of national intolerance. Are you fucking kidding me? Oh no, that was my example of extreme religious violence against gays, in a society which unlike Afghanistan isn’t routinely violent. My example of national intolerance is the current groundswell of frothing anti-Muslim activism in the US, which happens to be turning violent (see cabby thread for details). IOW, your posts are my cite. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/369 "2010-09-01T23:22:11Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > > Uganda is trying to change that. > > So one non-muslim country is trying to implement the death penalty for gays vs the [7](http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/f/DeathPenalty.htm) muslim countries who currently allow it. You think that is an argument in equating Christianity and and Islam as they currently stand then? Actually I think it’s an argument for praising the effects of the Separation of Church and State. To be blunt, if some fundamentalist Christian groups could get away with government control on the level of Wahabi Islam in Saudi Arabia they would be as bad. What stops those Christians from getting so bad, isn’t their faith. It’s simply having strong opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/370 "2010-09-01T23:37:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh no, that was my example of extreme religious violence against gays, in a society which unlike Afghanistan isn’t routinely violent. My example of national intolerance is the current groundswell of frothing anti-Muslim activism in the US, which happens to be turning violent (see cabby thread for details). > IOW, your posts are my cite. There is no ground swell of anti-muslim activism in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/371 "2010-09-01T23:43:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no ground swell of anti-muslim activism in the US. Huh. I guess book barbecues must be one of those quaint US traditions that’s always been going on but no one mentionned in the brochures until now. Or mosque arsons. Or assault on Muslims. Or virulent attacks on Muslims all over the news, blogosphere and whatnot. We have always been at war with Eastasia, then ? Cause you know, I could have sworn… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/372 "2010-09-01T23:57:17Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Huh. I guess book barbecues must be one of those quaint US traditions that’s always been going on but no one mentionned in the brochures until now. Or mosque arsons. Or assault on Muslims. Or virulent attacks on Muslims all over the news, blogosphere and whatnot. > . Book barbecues are non-violent freedoms of expressions and no mosques have been burned recently to my knowledge. If you’re referring to the recent torching of construction equipment to build the Murfreesboro mosque expansion then you should be aware of the [community support](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4523264) that came out in defense of the mosque. We don’t have the social/religious disparity that exists in France. There is no government institution tasked with maintaining a cultural identity. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/373 "2010-09-02T00:31:57Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually I think it’s an argument for praising the effects of the Separation of Church and State. To be blunt, if some fundamentalist Christian groups could get away with government control on the level of Wahabi Islam in Saudi Arabia they would be as bad. What stops those Christians from getting so bad, isn’t their faith. It’s simply having strong opponents. Well, the UK doesn’t really have separation of state and church, so that argument is somewhat moot. Why don’t Muslim countries have that level of opposition then? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/374 "2010-09-02T00:39:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Pat Robertson never promoted a religious caliphate and never advocated keeping Hindus out of the US. You didn’t read the article. He has never promoted violence. Yes, Pat Robertson has [advocated violence](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200508220006): > [@](#): > > Pat Robertson, host of Christian Broadcasting Network’s _The 700 Club_ and founder of the Christian Coalition of America, called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. > > From the August 22 broadcast of _The 700 Club:_ > ROBERTSON: There was a popular coup that overthrew him [Chavez]. And what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing. And as a result, within about 48 hours that coup was broken; Chavez was back in power, but we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he’s going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. > > **You know, I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.** And I don’t think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United … This is in our sphere of influence, so we can’t let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. **We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don’t need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It’s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.** Let the feverish back-pedalling begin. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/375 "2010-09-02T00:49:25Z")
[And he later apologized for it](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/#slice-2). It was a short lived jihad on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/376 "2010-09-02T01:15:33Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why don’t Muslim countries have that level of opposition then? Because in (some) Muslim countries, theocrats had more rifles. Then the opposition sort of… yeah. In many cases, courtesy of the West, too. > [@Magiver](#): > > Book barbecues are non-violent freedoms of expressions and no mosques have been burned recently to my knowledge. [Consider](http://www.news4jax.com/news/23514333/detail.html) [your](http://greenheritagenews.com/entries/human-rights-and-the-law/texas-mosque-targeted-by-arson-hate-graffiti-slurs) [knowledge](http://www.news8austin.com/content/headlines/?ArID=119966&SecID=2) [widened](http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-08-13/bay-area/17258314_1_mosque-one-alarm-blaze-arson-investigators). And that’s just what pops up in the first two Google pages. Besides, intolerance is intolerance. Being nominally non-violent doesn’t make it any less hateful or outrageous. A peaceful KKK rally that ends with a burning cross in front of someone’s yard is non violent, too. Yet if it happened all over the place, I’d be worried all the same. > [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re referring to the recent torching of construction equipment to build the Murfreesboro mosque expansion then you should be aware of the [community support](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4523264) that came out in defense of the mosque. What does that have to do with anything ? Is that supposed to make it OK ? Does the violence not count if it’s denounced by others ? Do explain. > [@](#): > > We don’t have the social/religious disparity that exists in France. … You’re just not paying attention, are you ? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/377 "2010-09-02T02:10:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Besides, intolerance is intolerance. Being nominally non-violent doesn’t make it any less hateful or outrageous. A peaceful KKK rally that ends with a burning cross in front of someone’s yard is non violent, too. Yet if it happened all over the place, I’d be worried all the same. Do you tolerate racists? Are you intolerant because you point out the flaws in their reasoning? There is a book that essentially condones the killing of people different than those who believe the message in it and we should be quiet about it? I don’t think so. Making noise, or even burning books, is a whole lot different than killing people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/378 "2010-09-02T02:36:13Z")
[quote=“Kobal2, post:376, topic:550891”] > [@Uzi](#): > > [Consider](http://www.news4jax.com/news/23514333/detail.html) [your](http://greenheritagenews.com/entries/human-rights-and-the-law/texas-mosque-targeted-by-arson-hate-graffiti-slurs) [knowledge](http://www.news8austin.com/content/headlines/?ArID=119966&SecID=2) [widened](http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-08-13/bay-area/17258314_1_mosque-one-alarm-blaze-arson-investigators). And that’s just what pops up in the first two Google pages. > Besides, intolerance is intolerance. Being nominally non-violent doesn’t make it any less hateful or outrageous. A peaceful KKK rally that ends with a burning cross in front of someone’s yard is non violent, too. Yet if it happened all over the place, I’d be worried all the same. > > What does that have to do with anything ? Is that supposed to make it OK ? Does the violence not count if it’s denounced by others ? Do explain. you went back 6 year to find grafiti , a failed arson and an actual arson on a mosque. Compare that to Churches [burned](http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=124615). You are clueless regarding anything that resembles perspective in a country the size of the United States. And no, intolerance is not intolerance when it comes to actual violence. Again, it’s a function of perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/379 "2010-09-02T03:13:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [And he later apologized for it](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/#slice-2). It was a short lived jihad on his part. So you retract your claim. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/380 "2010-09-02T03:34:40Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Do you tolerate racists? I can condemn racist actions without spewing drool-flecked spittle every time I mention the name of a person or group engaged in those actions. > [@Uzi](#): > > There is a book that essentially condones the killing of people different than those who believe the message in it . . . . No. There is not. There is a book in which a couple of passages, apparently written during a period of strife, encourage pretty merciless treatment of a group of people who were being accused of threatening the author of the book. Said passages, of course, are easy fodder for those who deliberately pick and choose “quotations” when they need to stir up hatred and fear, but there is no book that actually says what you claim it says. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=20)