# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/21 "2010-08-20T19:19:02Z")
A few things… Can we have a link to a news article about this, and not an editorial? While I think burning the Koran is stupid, it isn’t un-American. Burning something in protest is very American. What is un-American is when the government burns books in order to keep people from reading them. Interestingly, this group has “Outreach” as part of its name. I stopped buying irony meters a long time ago-- they just don’t last very long. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/22 "2010-08-20T19:20:48Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Fuck em. Muslims need to be clubbed over the head with the notion that free speech is free speech. Yes, we can and will draw cartoons about your prophet. Yes, we can and will burn the Koran, or any other damn book we feel like. You wanna live under Islamic law? Fine. Don’t expect me to, because I ain’t gonna. Don’t forget waving your dick in their faces. Wouldn’t want to leave that out. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/23 "2010-08-20T19:27:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Interestingly, this group has “Outreach” as part of its name. I stopped buying irony meters a long time ago-- they just don’t last very long. You need to get ones with fast acting overload protection. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/24 "2010-08-20T19:33:27Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > For debate I suppose, first off is…WTF? Book burnings in the US? That’s…surreal. Oh, I realize it has happened in the past (and even recently for all I know), but how can anyone think that this is something that matches the ideals of this country?? I have on occasion seen/read news stories about Christian Coalition/Moral Majority types doing that sort of thing over the years; burning or otherwise destroying books, music, games, movies. And I was told to do so as a child, back when I was being taught to be a “good Christian”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/25 "2010-08-20T19:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Can we have a link to a news article about this, and not an editorial? [/QUOTE] Sure, John, though you could Google them up yourself. 😛 At any rate, I found [this](http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100819006543&newsLang=en) and [this](http://floridaindependent.com/6184/gainesville-fire-department-denies-permit-for-burn-a-koran-day) (ironically saying that they can’t get a permit to do the burning). There [here](http://www.facebook.com/pages/International-Burn-A-Koran-Day/134718123226530?v=wall) is the facebook page they mentioned. There are a lot of other links on Google about this, but mainly they seem to be opinion pieces. > [@](#): > > While I think burning the Koran is stupid, it isn’t un-American. Burning something in protest is very American. What is un-American is when the government burns books in order to keep people from reading them. Yeah, I guess you are right. It just strikes me as odd that American’s would burn books. It seems so anti-American to me for some reason. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/26 "2010-08-20T19:35:22Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yeah, I guess you are right. It just strikes me as odd that American’s would burn books. It seems so anti-American to me for some reason. I expect it’s because you’ve heard the propaganda about how tolerant America is so often that you’ve come to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/27 "2010-08-20T19:37:50Z")
I guess I have. But then, you’ve heard the propaganda about how evil America is that you’ve come to believe that as well. Based on how little traction this event is getting outside of the loony religious sectors, I’d say that my take is closer to reality than yours is. You notice they were denied a permit to burn the books, and that the local community is up in arms? -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/28 "2010-08-20T19:38:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Somebody NEEDS to go there and start chucking bibles into the fire. As I understand it, Muslims do not react to desecrations of the Koran in at all the same way as Christians would react to desecrations of the Bible. Christians don’t much mind that much – burn one Bible, there are still plenty of copies in the world. Muslims may purport to reject all forms of idolatry, but any copy of the Koran (at least, in the original Arabic – translations are merely “commentaries”) is a sacred object to them and – I make no exaggeration – is almost identified with God. Destroying or desecrating it is a very, very big deal. From a [review](http://www.johnreilly.info/dedi.htm) of _Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes,_ by Tamim Ansary: > [@](#): > > The author gives commendable attention to the scientific and intellectual evolution of Abbasid times. This evolution was never entirely divorced from theology, which in the case of Islam meant close attention to the text and ontological status of the Koran. To put a complicated matter very briefly, the period began with an epistemologically optimistic appropriation of Aristotelianism; pure reason and empirical observation were believed capable of producing a high degree of reliable knowledge. This optimism was increasingly called into question by controversy over the interpretation of scripture, notably the issue of the degree to which the statements of the Koran can be applied analogically to address new situations. The dispute is sometimes formulated as the question whether the Koran is Allah’s substance or one of his creatures. The prevailing conclusion was that the Koran was “uncreated,” and so had a higher ontological status than any analysis of it. (Compared to their Muslim analogues, the strictest Christian literalists view the Bible as a collection of helpful hints.) The tradition of philosophical enquiry ended with a skepticism of the power of reason that David Hume might envy. The motive, however, was more like that of Immanuel Kant: to make room for faith by restricting the scope of intellectual critique. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/29 "2010-08-20T19:45:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Somebody NEEDS to go there and start chucking bibles into the fire. > > As I understand it, Muslims do not react to desecrations of the Koran in at all the same way as Christians would react to desecrations of the Bible. Christians don’t much mind that much – burn one Bible, there are still plenty of copies in the world. Muslims may purport to reject all forms of idolatry, but any copy of the Koran (at least, in the original Arabic – translations are merely “commentaries”) is a sacred object to them and – I make no exaggeration – is almost identified with God. Destroying or desecrating it is a very, very big deal. Them believing such horseshit does not validate it. It’s still a big pile of stinky stuff. Nobody that doesn’t live in an Islamic state has any obligation to observe the rules of that faith. Fuck Mohammed. I think he was a pervert, and probably fucked pigs. Fuck the Koran. It’s just a book. Paper, ink, bindings. Fuck Allah. He doesn’t exist anyway. Fuck Islam. They don’t rule the world. People that disagree with their religion have every right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/30 "2010-08-20T19:49:29Z")
Having the right to do something doesn’t mean that it is necessarily a wise idea to do so. Being annoyed by an offense, and deciding that the best course of action to stop offenses is to offend back, is the very opposite of wise. It’s cognitive dissonance in rather stark action. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/31 "2010-08-20T19:50:25Z")
This sounds bad on the surface, but if you really think about it, all they’d be doing is giving money to Islamic book publishers. Where are they going to get the Qur’ans? They’re going to have to buy them to burn them. Ka-ching for the Muslim publishing companies (and maybe a few Barnes & Noble outlets). While the words “book burning” sound bad, they’re only really insidious when they involve trying to take books _away_ from people, restrict access to them or remove them from the public sphere. People burning their own property is of no real concern to anybody (except maybe the fire Department). If a few knuckleheads want to burn their own money for a protest that will have no really affect on anyone else, confiscate any books from anyone who doesn’t want a book confiscated or infringe on anyone else’s rights, then this is stupid and pointless, but basically harmless and within the bounds of free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/32 "2010-08-20T19:51:43Z")
We need people to mail in [these or the equivalent](http://compare.ebay.com/like/220657556585?var=vl&sort=BestMatch) for the bonfire, then publicize their Bible-burning afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/33 "2010-08-20T19:54:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@xtisme](#): > > > > Secondly, what do you suppose the effect and impact of this (I’m trying hard not to use any demeaning terms to describe this guy)…this…person…will have on both US citizens who are Muslim or, worst yet, on Muslims in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq…etc?? > > You’re worried about offending Muslims in places they routinely burn the U.S. flag, and held massive demonstrations calling for the death of cartoonists? > > Fuck em. Muslims need to be clubbed over the head with the notion that free speech is free speech. Yes, we can and will draw cartoons about your prophet. Yes, we can and will burn the Koran, or any other damn book we feel like. You wanna live under Islamic law? Fine. Don’t expect me to, because I ain’t gonna. All Muslims are anti-free speech? All Muslims need to be insulted for the offenses of a few? I don’t care about the book burning as I posted above, but this idea that they all deserve to be insulted is stupid. Who gives a fuck about someone burning a flag, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/34 "2010-08-20T19:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] While the words “book burning” sound bad, they’re only really insidious when they involve trying to take books away from people, restrict access to them or remove them from the public sphere. People burning their own property is of no real concern to anybody (except maybe the fire Department). If a few knuckleheads want to burn their own money for a protest that will have no really affect on anyone else, confiscate any books from anyone who doesn’t want a book confiscated or infringe on anyone else’s rights, then this is stupid and pointless, but basically harmless and within the bounds of free speech. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I can see that. Except that I don’t think that’s how it would be viewed in other country’s. Granted, that’s really their problem I suppose, but it’s going to have a negative impact on places like Pakistan and Afghanistan, especially, at least if the article I linked to in the OP is to be believed. Something as simple as burning your own property could actually cost lives, and will certainly further cost us good will in the region…and at a time when we had the potential to actually start chipping away at the bad will we’ve managed to generate in the last few decades (especially in the last decade). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/35 "2010-08-20T19:57:09Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Having the right to do something doesn’t mean that it is necessarily a wise idea to do so. > > Being annoyed by an offense, and deciding that the best course of action to stop offenses is to offend back, is the very opposite of wise. It’s cognitive dissonance in rather stark action. Frankly, burning Korans is tacky. Not the kind of thing I would do. Not the kind of thing I would recommend doing. But it is certainly lawful expression. As is burning the flag. However, we (ie, all freedom loving people) can’t give an inch to these fuckers. If they see any signs of progress in forcing others to follow their religious rules, they’ll redouble their efforts to worm that shit into law anyway they can. Zero tolerance for that crap. Islam is not special. Islam gets no special protection not afforded to every other reliegion…Including the Church of Oak, which I just formed. Our most holy tradition is that SEC Football is a religious experience, and no other programming should ever be shown opposite an SEC football game, because that is a sin against Bear Bryant, the Holy Father of the Wishbone. Amen. All you blasphemers out there better repent. Or the Bear gonna come whup yo ass. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/36 "2010-08-20T19:58:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > As I understand it, Muslims do not react to desecrations of the Koran in at all the same way as Christians would react to desecrations of the Bible. Christians don’t much mind that much – burn one Bible, there are still plenty of copies in the world. Muslims may purport to reject all forms of idolatry, but any copy of the Koran (at least, in the original Arabic – translations are merely “commentaries”) is a sacred object to them and – I make no exaggeration – is almost identified with God. Destroying or desecrating it is a very, very big deal. > > Them believing such horseshit does not validate it. It’s still a big pile of stinky stuff. Nobody that doesn’t live in an Islamic state has any obligation to observe the rules of that faith. > > Fuck Mohammed. I think he was a pervert, and probably fucked pigs. > > Fuck the Koran. It’s just a book. Paper, ink, bindings. > > Fuck Allah. He doesn’t exist anyway. > > Fuck Islam. They don’t rule the world. People that disagree with their religion have every right to do so. When did you turn into **Der Trihs**? Who’s saying that nobody has a right to disagree with their religion. There’s a difference between disagreeing with a religion and going out of your way to deliberately insult everyone who believes in it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/37 "2010-08-20T19:58:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We need people to mail in [these or the equivalent](http://compare.ebay.com/like/220657556585?var=vl&sort=BestMatch) for the bonfire, then publicize their Bible-burning afterward. You’re devious. I like that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/38 "2010-08-20T20:02:37Z")
This does for stupid what eternity does for time. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/39 "2010-08-20T20:06:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > > > Having the right to do something doesn’t mean that it is necessarily a wise idea to do so. > > > > Being annoyed by an offense, and deciding that the best course of action to stop offenses is to offend back, is the very opposite of wise. It’s cognitive dissonance in rather stark action. > > Frankly, burning Korans is tacky. Not the kind of thing I would do. Not the kind of thing I would recommend doing. But it is certainly lawful expression. As is burning the flag. Something being lawful doesn’t make it necessarily a good idea, either. > [@](#): > > However, we (ie, all freedom loving people) can’t give an inch to these fuckers. If they see any signs of progress in forcing others to follow their religious rules, they’ll redouble their efforts to worm that shit into law anyway they can. I see no reason to believe that your understanding of cause and effect in these situations is to be trusted. Your response to being offended is to go out and cause offense, and yet you expect others to act differently. Too, what sign of progress is being seen here? What inch has been given? That Korans are going unburned? You want to send your message, you have to tie it to an actual act. Not just a a general “they’ve got to learn, the bastards!”. > [@](#): > > Zero tolerance for that crap. Islam is not special. Correct. But that works both ways. It deserves no special protection; it deserves no special scorn. Burning a Koran is like having one person insult you, then deciding the best course of action to get them to stop is to go and insult their entire family. It’s moronic and counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/40 "2010-08-20T20:13:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > \ > …Including the Church of Oak, which I just formed. Our most holy tradition is that SEC Football is a religious experience, and no other programming should ever be shown opposite an SEC football game, because that is a sin against Bear Bryant, the Holy Father of the Wishbone. Amen. > > All you blasphemers out there better repent. Or the Bear gonna come whup yo ass. I am very interested in your belief system and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. You do have a newsletter don’t you? All good new religions need a newsletter. How about a website? Is it acceptable to watch ACC football, or is that against the will of Bear Bryant (pbuh)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=3)