# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/461 "2010-09-03T02:45:43Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Those are only pictures of people that may have a Arab linage— that does not prove they were Muslims! So how can you prove the hijackers were Muslims? For all we know, they were Southern Baptists (except for that lout Mohammed Atta, looks more like a Seventh Day Adventist to me). Prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/462 "2010-09-03T02:56:02Z")
careful folks. Don’t be postin another pack of lie. we wouldn’t want the terrorists to come ridin in on camels and get any more lucky strikes. After all they’re already trying to build a terror mosque in Marlboro, TN. Soon Koran will be reduced to smoke and ashes, no butts about it. We’ll have a victory concert with my favorite band, Wheezer. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/463 "2010-09-03T02:59:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which, of course, no one here has claimed that they did. They did however [come up](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_Islamic_world) with a handful of stuff of little to no importance. Things like water purification, central heating, windmills, hospitals (and the basis for modern medicine), observatories, soap, coffee… you know, the kind of useless shite that never benefited the world, much less the non-Islamic world, in any way whatsoever. Thankfully, during that time Christendom could rely on our own alchemists and monks to … err…um…re-discover stuff the Romans and Ancient Greeks had invented centuries before ? Gee, this is really embarrassing. Oh, I know ! We did ascertain, with some authority I might add, that angels could not be in two places at once. Put THAT in your hookah and smoke it, Islamic golden age ! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/464 "2010-09-03T03:10:16Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > These people may have died in the Muslim terrorist attack, how ever these people are in my country and I want the citizens protected from this filthy Islamic garbage. You… you do realize there are Muslims in your country, right ? Millions of them ? American citizens, all of them ? The families of some of which having lived in the country for over a century ? Just checking, here. I mean, you can’t really blame me for going over the most basic of facts with you at this point. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/465 "2010-09-03T03:10:41Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > I am going to ignore your comment as it is not worth addressing. There are other points to make on this thread where my time would be better spent. _::: snerk :::_ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/466 "2010-09-03T03:17:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > These people may have died in the Muslim terrorist attack, how ever these people are in my country and I want the citizens protected from this filthy Islamic garbage. > > You… you do realize there are Muslims in your country, right ? Millions of them ? American citizens, all of them ? The families of some of which having lived in the country for over a century ? They may look Muslim, but can you prove they are? They could all just be some of those sneaky Buddhists. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/467 "2010-09-03T03:25:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > The term political correctness is applied to arguments that ignore core relationships between events in an attempt to avoid making any kind of judgment. > > Inventing new definitions for the term does not change what it really means. It certainly has no bearing on anything I have posted. > > Do you ignore evcery fact that challenges your preconceptions? > > Suharto persecuted Muslims. > Some of the Muslims Suharto persecuted formed a group to oppose him and were willing to carry out terrorist acts in to make their points. > Your statement > > > [@](#): > > > > the Bali attack which has nothing to do with . . . oppression or government > > is simply wrong. > > Was the attack justified? In no way. > Are the members of Jemaah Islamiah violent scum? Absolutely. > > However, they did not simply wake up one morning and decide to go kill people in some sort of _jihad_. They had a history that shaped their mindset and it was not simply reading the Qur’an and some hadiths; it included being persecuted for their religion. > > The violent Islamists are wrong and need to be stopped, but making odd assertions, (that defy the facts), that they were simply following their religion does nothing but inflame other less hateful Muslims with a sense of persecution and rationalizes the behavior of kooks like Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and others to stir up non-Muslim idiots to violence against Muslims. (Yes, I know that the score currently leans heavily toward the Muslim fanatics, but that is a temporary accident of history. If we continue to heap scorn on and cause problems for people who are doing nothing wrong and acting in good faith, (such as Imam Rauf), then we are simply going to prolong the violence.) Was Hasan persecuted over his Islamic religion when he was hired to teach it and to give lectures, unrestricted, at almost a hundred grand a year in pay? And then one morning he pulls out a gun and kills 12 totally innocent people at Ft. Hood that he never knew, and you says he was persecuted—Yeah right! Tell me another one. Don ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/468 "2010-09-03T03:25:31Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > OH COME ON!!! > > You are wasting my time. Those are only pictures of people that may have a Arab linage— that does not prove they were Muslims! I have news for YOU, Islam is NOT a race! It is a set of ideas that people believe in. I’m aware. Well, ok, here’s an article in the Daily News about Hamdani: [http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2002/04/06/2002-04-06\_muslim\_cop\_cadet\_mourned.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2002/04/06/2002-04-06_muslim_cop_cadet_mourned.html) It’s titled “Muslim Cop Cadet Mourned”. Here’s an article about the “ground zero mosque” that mentions Chowdhury (bolding mine): [http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/aug/22/firestorm-a-mosque-at-park-place/?print](http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/aug/22/firestorm-a-mosque-at-park-place/?print) > [@](#): > > Mohammad Chowdhury was a waiter at Windows on the World on the 107th floor of the North Tower. The entire morning shift at the restaurant perished along with the people who had come for breakfast. **That morning, Mohammad had prayed the pre-dawn prayer with his wife, Baraheen Ashrafi.** She was nine months pregnant with their second child. He left for work and she never saw him again. Their son, Farqad, was born 48 hours after the terrorists struck, making him one of the first “9/11 orphans” to come into the world. And you may be right about Doany, because I’m finding some information that suggests he was a Melkite. I could find somebody else who was a Muslim who died in the towers if that would change your mind. > [@](#): > > These people may have died in the Muslim terrorist attack, how ever these people are in my country and I want the citizens protected from this filthy Islamic garbage. It is sad to see people cut down in the prime of life, and tears to see children slaughtered. It is sad, and I also want the citizens of America protected…citizens including Mohammed Chowdhury and Muhammed Hamdani. It seems that part of protecting Americans means protecting Americans’ rights, and one of those rights is the right to believe whatever you want and practice your religion so long as what you’re doing isn’t hurting anyone. And, as far as I can tell, even though Muhammed Atta’s practice of his religion hurt people, Mohammed Chowdhury and Muhammed Hamdani’s practice of their religion didn’t hurt anyone. In fact, they were hurt by Muhammed Atta’s practice of his religion. I very much am concerned with people like Muhammed Atta being in this country. I’m not concerned at all with people like Muhammed Hamdani being in this country. The tragedy is that some people think that just because they practiced the same religion, the two Muhammeds believed the same thing. > [@](#): > > And YOU are here justifying the greatest terrorist cult on earth and that is Islam. How do you sleep at night? Usually on my stomach/right side with my right hand under my pillow. You’re really not supposed to sleep that way because its bad for your back, but I’ve slept like that for quite a while. I usually sleep well (although I’m told I snore), but as I’m getting older, I’m prone to indigestion at night, which makes me wake up in the middle of the night nauseous, if I eat greasy or spicy food late at night. So, I’m more careful about what I eat now. Thanks for asking, though. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/469 "2010-09-03T03:37:53Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > NOW can I burn the Koran as it is proved that Islam is nothing but a pack of lie. Go ahead. What do you think it is, their Soul Object and burning it will make Muslims everywhere fall down and turn to dust? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/470 "2010-09-03T03:43:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Stringing together _non sequitur_s and making illogical claims while ignoring the context of a text does not work well to make your case, I am afraid. What context? It is a bunch of nonsense for the most part and the other half is about those that don’t believe are going to burn and how Allah is merciful because of it. Which is why guys like Osama can easily interpret it any way they like to. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/471 "2010-09-03T03:58:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > These people may have died in the Muslim terrorist attack, how ever these people are in my country and I want the citizens protected from this filthy Islamic garbage. > > You… you do realize there are Muslims in your country, right ? Millions of them ? American citizens, all of them ? The families of some of which having lived in the country for over a century ? > Just checking, here. I mean, you can’t really blame me for going over the most basic of facts with you at this point. That is why I think we should have a harmless Koran burning party to loosen up the Muslims; that this is America, and we have free speech in public, NO ONE or NO institution is above being criticized, that includes your child rapist Mohammad, and YOU Muslims will have to adapt to our ways, have tolerance not found in the Koran, and learn to live with it. Now YOU Muslims, get out there and make some money, this is the land of the rich, and live the good life, as there is hope for your children to be better than you. Some of your children may even convert to being a Christian or an Atheist— and YOU have NO say about it and you cannot do anything about it after they are 18y. You cannot sell your daughters into marriage at age 9, as Mohammad took Aisha! We are going to force you to be a hypocrite to your Islamic religion, you cannot kill non-believers when ever you see them as the Koran says to do. (It just might work, it worked with the Mormons) Don ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/472 "2010-09-03T04:07:04Z")
My Congressman is Mr Ellison, a Muslim. Minnesota’s dull common sense can hang like an placid cloud, but damned if it doesn’t have its moments. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/473 "2010-09-03T04:15:53Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Was Hasan persecuted over his Islamic religion when he was hired to teach it and to give lectures, unrestricted, at almost a hundred grand a year in pay? And then one morning he pulls out a gun and kills 12 totally innocent people at Ft. Hood that he never knew, and you says he was persecuted—Yeah right! Tell me another one. How about you tell us one? Tell us who hired Major Hasan to teach his religion “at almost a hundred grand a year in pay.” While you’re about it, you could also tell us where he was hired to teach his religion for that price. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/474 "2010-09-03T04:16:34Z")
Dude, who are you talking to, exactly ? I’m not a Muslim, I’m not even an American. ETA : that was of course a response to **Don** ’s latest rant. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/475 "2010-09-03T04:21:14Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Was Hasan persecuted over his Islamic religion when he was hired to teach it and to give lectures, unrestricted, at almost a hundred grand a year in pay? And then one morning he pulls out a gun and kills 12 totally innocent people at Ft. Hood that he never knew, and you says he was persecuted—Yeah right! Tell me another one. Hasan was the sort of unthinking, hate-filled person that you appear to be trying to emulate. (He was probably also mentally disturbed, but that is not yet established.) As such, he was very susceptible to the words of another purveyor of hatred. I have made no claim that every Muslim who has ever committed a violent act was persecuted, so you are just posting one more straw man. The point to which you are irrelevantly responding is several posters claim that Islam is, _per se_, a hateful and evil religion that simply directs all its members to act in violent and hateful ways. My response is that the lack of such hateful violence among many Muslim groups over hundreds of years puts the lie to that claim, but that to the extent that there are several violent groups of Muslims active in today’s world, we can find either persecution or societal chaos or conflict at the origin of those groups. Once a group embraces hatred and violence, it can take over their actions, of course, but the violent Muslim groups active today all had their origins in external violence or oppression rather than in a simple reading of the Qur’an or even a stint at a _madrassah_. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/476 "2010-09-03T04:27:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > NOW can I burn the Koran as it is proved that Islam is nothing but a pack of lie. > > Go ahead. What do you think it is, their Soul Object and burning it will make Muslims everywhere fall down and turn to dust? I do not know what Voodoo believing Muslims are going to do, when the Korans go up in flames. Maybe they will throw themselves into the fire to put it out. So we had better get the fire department to stand by, with doctors, and attorneys, have cameras running so Muslims will not say we spit on them when we did not (as spitting at some one is a tort and that is forbidden). Maybe we should get the cops out in riot gear to protect our rights of free speech. We do not like the Koran and we do not like Islam, and we have a say about it. After we have our say we will go home and post on Great Debates and try not to get banned. Don ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/477 "2010-09-03T04:37:46Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > What context? It is a bunch of nonsense for the most part and the other half is about those that don’t believe are going to burn and how Allah is merciful because of it. Which is why guys like Osama can easily interpret it any way they like to. You have really stopped making any sense, so I’ll probably have to stop responding to you. Your posts are a really silly mish-mash of attacks on the Qur’an for being wrong or foolish while insisting that you can reasonably be expected to interpret what it means and tell its followers what they are supposed to believe even though you deny that the work is in any way coherent, to begin with. I will make one more attempt, although the information has already been posted in this thread more than once and you have ignored it. The “violent” passages that you have quoted were written at the particuar time when the nascent Muslim community was under specific attack by the pagans of a particular city. They were direct instructions on the way to defend themselves from a particular group at a particular time. They were not general instructions ordering the murder of every non-Muslim they ever encountered for the rest of history. It really does not matter whether the words in the verses were proclaimed by (a) God or dreamed up by Mohammed, himself. The point was that they were recorded as the exhortations before particular battles and they were kept in the Qur’an because the Muslim community won those battles. So it is irrelvant whether they are the words of God or the words of Mohammed; they simply point back to a time when Muslims were in danger of being annihilated and provide inspiration for future Muslims to defend themselves if they are attacked. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/478 "2010-09-03T04:39:17Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > We do not like the Koran and we do not like Islam, and we have a say about it. After we have our say we will go home and post on Great Debates and try not to get banned. So, how many of you are posting from that computer, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/479 "2010-09-03T05:49:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > Was Hasan persecuted over his Islamic religion when he was hired to teach it and to give lectures, unrestricted, at almost a hundred grand a year in pay? And then one morning he pulls out a gun and kills 12 totally innocent people at Ft. Hood that he never knew, and you says he was persecuted—Yeah right! Tell me another one. > > Hasan was the sort of unthinking, hate-filled person that you appear to be trying to emulate. (He was probably also mentally disturbed, but that is not yet established.) As such, he was very susceptible to the words of another purveyor of hatred. > > I have made no claim that every Muslim who has ever committed a violent act was persecuted, so you are just posting one more straw man. The point to which you are irrelevantly responding is several posters claim that Islam is, _per se_, a hateful and evil religion that simply directs all its members to act in violent and hateful ways. My response is that the lack of such hateful violence among many Muslim groups over hundreds of years puts the lie to that claim, but that to the extent that there are several violent groups of Muslims active in today’s world, we can find either persecution or societal chaos or conflict at the origin of those groups. Once a group embraces hatred and violence, it can take over their actions, of course, but the violent Muslim groups active today all had their origins in external violence or oppression rather than in a simple reading of the Qur’an or even a stint at a _madrassah_. You said: “…posters claim that Islam is, per se, a hateful and evil religion that simply directs all its members to act in violent and hateful ways.” My answer is YES. I stand by my claim with the evidence of the Koran that I have posted (that you can read the book yourself), with thousands of customary terrorist acts of Muslims in the last 15 years with 10s of thousands dead and 3 times as many wounded, and with Islamic history of aggression for about 1,400 years, and by the preponderance of the evidence; nothing has changed since Mohammad of what the entire Islamic cult is built on who was nothing but a pedophile and a war monger to say the least (going by Islamic holy books). Now your response is, the reason is persecution. I say that is very lame of you and overly broad to the point of not being understandable as even serial killers feel persecuted when caught and punished. Persecution is a “subjective feeling” that any one, for any reason, can conjure up. Even more so if a person believes in an almighty god telling them they are persecuted. Every non-believer, even the ones on the other side of the earth, persecutes a Muslim for the simple act of non-belief. Accordingly, perhaps you would like to bring some limitations to your persecution theory and include the Koran. You do NOT get the luxury of speaking for all Muslims and their subjective feelings. But I do have the objective evidence that all Muslim terrorist believe in the Koran. So I say burn the Koran, as no matter what I do I will be blamed for persecuting a Muslim. Perhaps I should react as I’m being persecuted by Muslims for my non-belief in Allah, by their Koran threats and terrorist acts. Don ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/480 "2010-09-03T05:58:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Suharto persecuted Muslims. > > Some of the Muslims Suharto persecuted formed a group to oppose him and were willing to carry out terrorist acts in to make their points. Suharto was out of office for 4 years prior to the Bali bombing. There is no logic to the idea that they were opposing him. It wasn’t targeted at the government. It was targeted at symbols of Western cultural which corresponds to the messages handed down by Imams through mosques and schools. The driving force for the target was religion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=25)