# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/661 "2010-09-08T20:59:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > Yes, Muslims live in peace with people of other faiths, but usually when they are the minority and have little choice in the matter. Otherwise, when Muslims are the majority you usually have some form of Sharia as the basis for the law and all sorts of nuttiness derived because of it. > > Indonesia is the world’s most populous Muslim-majority nation with 86% of the population reportedly Muslim. A quick glance at the Wiki says “Although religious freedom is stipulated in the Indonesian constitution, the government officially recognizes only six religions: Islam, Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Confucianism.” That’s not complete religious freedom but it’s not the “nuttiness” we associate with Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East (which is as much socio-political as it is religious) either. It does kind of suck if you’re Jewish though. Is that an oversight or is it more recent solidarity with the Palestinians? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/662 "2010-09-08T21:07:10Z")
If this provokes some unfortunate Muslim reactions, that would be bad, of course, Luckily, we don’t have a political party so craven and unprincipled as to exploit such a tragedy. Oh, wait… **Right Wing Leaders Plan To Use September 11th Anniversary To Make Money** [http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/08/sept-11-profiteer/](http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/08/sept-11-profiteer/) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/663 "2010-09-08T22:30:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > Then what is it about the muslim countries taht produce so much mroe unrest and terrorism compared to other countries taht have suffered just as much if not more indignity at the hands of the white satan? > > You mean such peaceful countries as Sri Lanka, Bolivia, Mexico, Zimbabwe, Serbia (attacking the rest of the former Yugoslavia), Congo, and the other various peaceful lands that simply do not get included in a list of “violent” Muslim places because they happen to not be a source of Muslim violence? (To that can be added Peru and Chile and Argentina that are _relatively_ peaceful, now, but that have very violent recent histories.) > > Indonesia, Iran, Philipines, Chechnya, and a few other places were the sites of the active suppression of Islam, which puts their anger into a specific context. Many of the Arab states are run by the corrupt guys that made the best deals with the oil companies and are now facing hostility from their fellow countrymen–often led by the more Puritanical Muslim religious leaders on an anti-corruption platform. Mao was able to consolidate power in China over fifty years ago while the European nations still had more control over the now independent Muslim countries, but China was quite violent, even through the 1970s. I am not faimilar with the terrorism being exported from Sri Lanka and Serbia but I get the impression that muslim nations (especially middle eastern muslim nations produce MUCH more than their fair share of terrorism. Maybe its just the liberal media giving me that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/664 "2010-09-08T22:35:11Z")
**Burning books in the US…'Burn Quran Day’** You know…I understand the sentiment behind this. There’s part of me that wants to pitch a book on the fire. But I think it’s a bad thing to do in the long run. Actions like that will only strengthen the resolve of the religious whackjobs in the middle east. I’d be willing to bet that if they burn the Korans on 9/11, there’s gonna be a rash of bombings on 9/12 and American troops are gonna die. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/665 "2010-09-08T22:47:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > **Burning books in the US…‘Burn Quran Day’** > > You know…I understand the sentiment behind this. There’s part of me that wants to pitch a book on the fire. > > But I think it’s a bad thing to do in the long run. Actions like that will only strengthen the resolve of the religious whackjobs in the middle east. I’d be willing to bet that if they burn the Korans on 9/11, there’s gonna be a rash of bombings on 9/12 and American troops are gonna die. I think the minister is trolling for attention for his fledgling 50 head congregation. He will be cleaning up burned bibles on church property until Jesus stops by on his next visit (which will be his own doing). However, I was dumbfounded to see a news report that the fire department declared ALL books off limits because the INK was a hazard. I see a huge Fred Phelps style lawsuit when they attempt to intervene. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/666 "2010-09-08T23:04:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Burning Qur’ans does not involve just the terrorists. It offends Muslims who have worked with us to stop the terrorists and it gives the terrorists fodder to recruit new young volunteers. We fake respect but it’s actually fear? It proves that you need a couple of bombing and people will respect you. The burning is a bullshit action by a bullshit guy, but it has revealed the fear that Islam has instilled in a great many hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/667 "2010-09-08T23:10:31Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > Burning Qur’ans does not involve just the terrorists. It offends Muslims who have worked with us to stop the terrorists and it gives the terrorists fodder to recruit new young volunteers. > > We fake respect but it’s actually fear? It proves that you need a couple of bombing and people will respect you. > > The burning is a bullshit action by a bullshit guy, but it has revealed the fear that Islam has instilled in a great many hearts. Don’t you think people would have the same reaction if people wanted to burn bibles? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/668 "2010-09-08T23:33:28Z")
Fear? Well, its true I sure wouldn’t want to lose a war with Islam. But not at all interested in winning one, either. Only thing worse than war is needless war. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/669 "2010-09-08T23:41:35Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Don’t you think people would have the same reaction if people wanted to burn bibles? You’re joking, right?[Muhammed cartoons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_cartoons): 100’s dead. Riots all over the place. Boycotts. [Piss Christ](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ): A few death threats and hate mail and someone attempted to smash the exhibit with a hammer. Oh, and the artist lost his grants. Come on, really? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/670 "2010-09-08T23:48:16Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > > > Yes, I would argue words mean nothing except what someone wants them to mean. > > Hmmm, I’d make a case that you are completely wrong and there are other books out there that will specifically tell you what words mean and that by using logic you can learn to correctly parse sentences for what the meaning of the author intended, but I’m afraid that you would just ignore it and make up whatever you’d like to hear. It seems illogical to accept my argument in order to poison the well, but reject it generally. I mean, fair play to you - I can’t now disagree without you being able to claim that i’m merely ignoring your words. Anyway, yes, there are books that will tell you what words mean. Unfortunetly, they tend to be written in words also, which just ends up moving the problem up a level. No, using logic you may not learn to correctly parse sentences for what the meaning of the author in intended, at least not infallibly, because there is potential for error at both ends of the process. You may misuse logic, and the author may have misused words in explaining his meaning. > [@](#): > > I agree with **tomndebb** , that books should be read within the context of when they were written, who wrote it, and the intended audience at the time, but like you, I am afraid that most people just want to read things they agree with or to justify their actions and the Koran makes it easy for them to do so. Any book can be used to justify whatever you desire. The Koran is no easier or harder than any other text to justify from. Simple words, as compared to the magnificience that is the convinced brain, don’t really have much chance to play a part. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/671 "2010-09-09T00:10:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > We fake respect but it’s actually fear? It proves that you need a couple of bombing and people will respect you. > > The burning is a bullshit action by a bullshit guy, but it has revealed the fear that Islam has instilled in a great many hearts. To the extent that some people need to be threatened in order to demonstrate respect, (at least respect of power), I suppose you are right. I have never felt any particular fear of Muslims and I tend to respect other persons, regardless of their beliefs. Of course, there has been a demonstration of fear, recently, with people claiming that we ought to prevent a handful of peaceful Sufis from building a community center in Manhattan because it would, in some odd way, show the “wrong message” that folks in the U.S. can actually tolerate diversity. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/672 "2010-09-09T00:16:47Z")
Just heard about this on KO. Found the link. > **[Memphis News & Weather | Memphis, TN | localmemphis.com](https://www.localmemphis.com/)** > > News, Weather, Traffic and Sports from ABC24, the official site of WATN, serving Memphis, Tennessee and surrounding areas. **Memphis Area Muslims Worshiping At Christian Church During Ramadan** > [@](#): > > …Steve Stone is Pastor of Heartsong Church, located right across the street. “This place doesn’t belong to us, it’s God’s place and we’re just sharing it.” Stone and his congregation have decided to share it with the Muslim Islamic Center… USA! Fuck, yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/673 "2010-09-09T00:41:25Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Any book can be used to justify whatever you desire. The Koran is no easier or harder than any other text to justify from. Simple words, as compared to the magnificience that is the convinced brain, don’t really have much chance to play a part. ‘god commands you to hate x’ ‘god commands you to love x’ Can you pick the one that makes it easier for a person to love x and the one that makes it easier for them to hate x? Which one makes it harder to love x and which makes it easier to hate x? Assuming that anyone actually cares what god commands, that is. Or, are you going to stick with your contention that they are the same statement and can be used as anyone sees fit to achieve whatever result they want? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/674 "2010-09-09T00:48:29Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > > > Any book can be used to justify whatever you desire. The Koran is no easier or harder than any other text to justify from. Simple words, as compared to the magnificience that is the convinced brain, don’t really have much chance to play a part. > > ‘god commands you to hate x’ > ‘god commands you to love x’ > > Can you pick the one that makes it easier for a person to love x and the one that makes it easier for them to hate x? Which one makes it harder to love x and which makes it easier to hate x? Assuming that anyone actually cares what god commands, that is. > > Or, are you going to stick with your contention that they are the same statement and can be used as anyone sees fit to achieve whatever result they want? It is not my contention that they are the same statement; they have different words, obviously. The second part is right; it is my contention that they are, effectively, the same statement in terms of what meaning people may draw from them. To put it in those terms, a person who is convinced that god wishes them to hate x will, in general, be quite able to draw equal supportive meaning from each of those sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/675 "2010-09-09T01:05:15Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > Don’t you think people would have the same reaction if people wanted to burn bibles? > > You’re joking, right?[Muhammed cartoons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_cartoons): 100’s dead. Riots all over the place. Boycotts. In places like Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Libya, sure, but those are violent countries with a bunch of Muslim fundamentalists anyway There wasn’t any rioting or violence by American Muslims, and there wasn’t even much violence by Muslims in Denmark, and the Muslims who did provoke violence in Denmark were all recent immigrants from other countries…a few Tunisians, an Algerian, and a Somali. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/676 "2010-09-09T01:39:08Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > To put it in those terms, a person who is convinced that god wishes them to hate x will, in general, be quite able to draw equal supportive meaning from each of those sentences. I agree with that. It doesn’t make them right, though. The text can stand alone and have meaning regardless of how some people want to interpret them. All I’m saying is that it is easier to get to C if you don’t have to start from A. Love-\>Hate-\>Kill ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/677 "2010-09-09T01:41:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > In places like Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Libya, sure, but those are violent countries with a bunch of Muslim fundamentalists anyway I wasn’t under the impression that we were limiting our discussion to NA. If we did I’d agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/678 "2010-09-09T02:00:18Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Don’t you think people would have the same reaction if people wanted to burn bibles? If you mean car-bombs and suicide bombers, no. > [@elucidator](#): > > Fear? Well, its true I sure wouldn’t want to lose a war with Islam. But not at all interested in winning one, either. Only thing worse than war is needless war. Thanks. > [@tomndebb](#): > > To the extent that some people need to be threatened in order to demonstrate respect, (at least respect of power), I suppose you are right. I have never felt any particular fear of Muslims and I tend to respect other persons, regardless of their beliefs. > > Of course, there has been a demonstration of fear, recently, with people claiming that we ought to prevent a handful of peaceful Sufis from building a community center in Manhattan because it would, in some odd way, show the “wrong message” that folks in the U.S. can actually tolerate diversity. But this whole thread is about “burn Qurans = people die”. The badly-called “Ground-zero mosque” will result in little more than insulting emails. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/679 "2010-09-09T02:35:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > But this whole thread is about “burn Qurans = people die”. The badly-called “Ground-zero mosque” will result in little more than insulting emails. Big difference. You haven’t been paying attention to the mosque threads. There have been numerous claims that “allowing” the community center will be seen as a “victory” that will encourage the extremists to commit more atrocities. (And, of course, there have already been several acts of violence against mosques since the lies began to be spread about the community center.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/680 "2010-09-09T02:43:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > Don’t you think people would have the same reaction if people wanted to burn bibles? > > If you mean car-bombs and suicide bombers, no. As a rule, American Muslims don’t get involved in car bombs and suicide bombers either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=35)