# Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891 "2010-08-20T17:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/141 "2010-08-23T15:53:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > I think Oakminster’s point (and its a fair point) is that pretty much everyone (Christians included, or at least every Christian I have ever met) think that the Westboro baptist Church is nucking futz and they are very very exceptional. On the other hand there seem to be entire countries that follow the extremist muslim philosophy that Oakminster is criticizing. > > And there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t, so who gives a shit? Did you miss the part where one side is holding forward the westboro baptist church on the one hand and the other side is holdig forward half the middle east on the other? What percentage of terrorism worldwide do you think is comitted by muslims? Its a staggeringly huge percentage, how do you explain the huge concentration of terrorism among muslims? I mean, if you got rid of terrorism by muslims you hardly have any terrorism left. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/142 "2010-08-23T15:53:55Z")
I haven’t read my way through all the pages of this thread. The people who want to burn Korans are idiots who are helping Al Quidas cause no end and underminding the Wests position as the vanguard of liberty and progress. The next time some extreme Islamist carries out an atrocity they can quite honestly point at the people who came up with this adventure in stupidity as an example of Western lies and hypocrisy. I.E. We talk about freedom of religion on the one hand and then carry out acts like this… So our word is obviously not to be trusted, so its pointless to negotiate. And the nut jobs murdering innocent people are "justified "in their actions. All Muslims aren’t the same and don’t think and act the same. Unfortunately all small minded bigots appear to think the same and act the same whether they’re Christian, Muslim, Jewish or worshippers of the Gianrt Flying Spaghetti monster etc… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/143 "2010-08-23T15:56:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > But you agree that doing stupid offensive shit (like burning the Quran) is protected by the same principle that protects the right to build that mosque right? And perhaps building a mosque so close to the twin towers is not as offensive to you as burning the quran but I bet there are some people who think nothing of burning the Quran but think that a mosque on that site is truly and deeply offensive. > > I’m not willing to equate idiots that want to burn the Koran with reasonable people that want to build a civic enter. Having rights is not the same thing as _being_ right. So we should protect people’ s right to practice their religion where people murdered 300 folks in the name of that religion but we should restrict people’s ability to burn an icon of that religion? ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/144 "2010-08-23T15:56:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@qpw3141](#): > > > > You are making a very common mistake - that of equating Muslim terrorism with a desire to propagate their religion around the world (Like the Jehova’s witnesses). > > > > This is not a true picture of what is happening. > > > > The Muslims who are indulging in terrorism are doing so because various other people are interfering in their lands and they are being treated unfairly by the international community. > > Frankly, I don’t give a shit why they’re doing it but extremist asshatery in Islam seems to be far more prevalent than extremist asshattery in almost any other community. Why is that? Is it my imaginiation? Almost certainly, yes. > [@](#): > > There are US military bases in Germany, Japan, Korea, Guam, the Philipinnes, and yet we do not see a rash of Korean terrorists trying to blow up Times Square. And noone is walking on eggshells around the Filipinos for fear that they might throw a fucking tantrum and blow up a building in NYC. WTF is it about Islam that makes this sort of shit so common? This is a straw man. Who said anything about US bases? Anyway, there is a considerable difference between a country giving the US permission to have a base there and getting invaded. I would have thought that would have been obvious to anyone. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > There are poor people all over the world. Go to India’s slums and ask if these people are so muchy better off than the guys who flew a plane into the twin towers? Poverty is no excuse. Another straw man. Who said it was, or that that was a reason? > [@](#): > > There are people who suffer GRAVE injustice all over the world that makes the injustice heaped on muslims pale in comparison. Suffering injustive is no excuse. What makes these guys so fucking special that we have to delve into their motives and try to understand WHY they are pissed off enough to come and kill people indiscriminately? Erm, let me see … Perhaps because if we understand what their grievances are we would be in a better position to work something out and stop any future bloodshed. Too simple? Just ask yourself what is the difference between yourself and some hotheaded blow hard Iraqi who asks the same questions about the US who invaded his country and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. He’s actually got a lot more to get worked up about than you have. 😉 > [@](#): > > Isn’t it about time we started asking WTF is wrong with Islam? What is their fucking problem? Only if you have so little knowledge of what’s going on in the middle East that you don’t find the answer blindingly obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/145 "2010-08-23T16:00:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > And there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t, so who gives a shit? > > Did you miss the part where one side is holding forward the westboro baptist church on the one hand and the other side is holdig forward half the middle east on the other? An irrelevant point. It’s still less than one percent of all Muslims who are extremists. and it’s still equally stupid to villify a billion and a half people you’ve never met for the actions of a few extremists. The extremism has nothing to do with the religion, by the way. It’s political. Religious;ly motivated violence and fanatacism within a culture is a symptom, not a cause. Muslims integrated into the US tend to be completely law abiding and non-violent because they aren’t subjected to the stresses (or ghettoization) they are subjected to in some other countries. Lock a bunch of Christians behind barbed wire and armed guards for a while, and Christians would start putting bombs in backpacks too. The religion has nothing to do with it. Any religion will do. It’s the stresses on the population that causes extremism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/146 "2010-08-23T16:01:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > I’m not willing to equate idiots that want to burn the Koran with reasonable people that want to build a civic enter. Having rights is not the same thing as _being_ right. > > So we should protect people’ > s right to practice their religion where people murdered 300 folks in the name of that religion but we should restrict people’s ability to burn an icon of that religion? Name one person in this thread who has said we should restrict anyone’s right to burn Qur’ans. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/147 "2010-08-23T16:37:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Lock a bunch of Christians behind barbed wire and armed guards for a while, and Christians would start putting bombs in backpacks too. The religion has nothing to do with it. Any religion will do. It’s the stresses on the population that causes extremism. There are millions of Americans in jail in the US and the vast majority are of a christian derivative. Few (none actually) are putting bombs in backpacks. > [@](#): > > but just to he gneral idea that we should accept Islamaphobic insults as socially acceptable just because of the actions of a few. Then you’re concern is that those Muslim’s who don’t hate us know that we don’t agree with the actions of this church? I somewhat agree, but I think we should also emphasize that even if we find it objectionable, it is still something that we will tolerate because we believe in the concept of free speech over someone being offended. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/148 "2010-08-23T16:39:08Z")
The fact that it is occurring at all makes that taken as read. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/149 "2010-08-23T16:41:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The extremism has nothing to do with the religion, by the way. There are things in the Koran that specifically call for ‘extremist’ actions. These haven’t been left on the scrap heap of history like similar things have been in Christianity. So, you can’t say it has nothing to do with the religion based upon small minorities of people living within another culture. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/150 "2010-08-23T16:44:50Z")
Yeah, it’s a good thing modern Christians don’t blow up abortion clinics or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/151 "2010-08-23T16:47:51Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Lock a bunch of Christians behind barbed wire and armed guards for a while, and Christians would start putting bombs in backpacks too. The religion has nothing to do with it. Any religion will do. It’s the stresses on the population that causes extremism. > > There are millions of Americans in jail in the US and the vast majority are of a christian derivative. Few (none actually) are putting bombs in backpacks. I’m not talking about jail, I’m talking about apartheid. > [@](#): > > Then you’re concern is that those Muslim’s who don’t hate us know that we don’t agree with the actions of this church? No. I think they’re smart enough to figure that out. My concern is that we don’t allow sweeping anti-Islamic rhetoric to become socially acceptable. I wasn’t even talk about the book burning, which I don’t give a shit about, but the spewing by some posters in this thread which is indistingushable from spewing about “niggers” or Jews. > [@](#): > > I somewhat agree, but I think we should also emphasize that even if we find it objectionable, it is still something that we will tolerate because we believe in the concept of free speech over someone being offended. Who’s saying we shouldn’t tolerate it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/152 "2010-08-23T16:49:32Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > The extremism has nothing to do with the religion, by the way. > > There are things in the Koran that specifically call for ‘extremist’ actions. There are just as many things in the Bible that call for extremist action. > [@](#): > > These haven’t been left on the scrap heap of history like similar things have been in Christianity. For the vast majority of Muslims, yes they have. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/153 "2010-08-23T17:13:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, it’s a good thing modern Christians don’t blow up abortion clinics or anything. How many abortion clinics have been blown up? [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m not talking about jail, I’m talking about apartheid. [/QUOTE] What apartheid? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/154 "2010-08-23T17:21:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > Frankly, I don’t give a shit why they’re doing it but extremist asshatery in Islam seems to be far more prevalent than extremist asshattery in almost any other community. Why is that? Is it my imaginiation > > Yes, it’s your imagination. OK, so what percentage of acts of terrorism in the last 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years do you think were committed by Muslims? I’m not saying that any appreciable percentage of mulsims are terrorists but I am saying that a significant percentage of terrorists are muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/155 "2010-08-23T17:23:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > No, I think they would be happy with not building the mosque. > > > > I personally don’t care about the 9/11 mosque. I do care about some of the hypocrisy on this subject. Oakminster made some inartful but valid points and a people started shitting down his throat for it. (I don’t have a good enough memory to remember if oakminster is one of the assholes on this board I dislike or one of the assholes on this board i tend to agree with but he seemed to be getting shitted on for defending free speech book burning (the link to a site with an Ayn Rand reference makes me think he is probably one of the former types)). > > Everybody here is defending the free speech right to burn the books. **Oakminster** was getting grief for comments completely unrelated to that. OK I guess you are right but I did see a lot of “this pastor is an asshole for wanting to burn books” with percious few “that imam is an asshole for wanting to build a mosque so close to the twin towers” I don’t think its offensive to build a mosque near the twin towers but I can see how someone else might. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/156 "2010-08-23T17:26:46Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Yeah, it’s a good thing modern Christians don’t blow up abortion clinics or anything. > > How many abortion clinics have been blown up? [41](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Arson.2C_bombing.2C_and_property_crime) in the US and Canada since 1977, not including unsuccessful attempts or arson. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/157 "2010-08-23T17:27:56Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I haven’t read my way through all the pages of this thread. > > The people who want to burn Korans are idiots who are helping Al Quidas cause no end and underminding the Wests position as the vanguard of liberty and progress. > > The next time some extreme Islamist carries out an atrocity they can quite honestly point at the people who came up with this adventure in stupidity as an example of Western lies and hypocrisy. > I.E. We talk about freedom of religion on the one hand and then carry out acts like this… > > So our word is obviously not to be trusted, so its pointless to negotiate. > > And the nut jobs murdering innocent people are "justified "in their actions. > > All Muslims aren’t the same and don’t think and act the same. > > Unfortunately all small minded bigots appear to think the same and act the same whether they’re Christian, Muslim, Jewish or worshippers of the Gianrt Flying Spaghetti monster etc.. So you’re saying that burning the Quran might encourage or terrorism taht kills innocent people so we shouldn’t do it? That we should walk on eggshells around them? When the fuck can we call out the global Muslim community for these assholes in their midst? We call out the otherwise inoffensive teabaggers for the racists in their midst and attribute some of that racism to all of them, why can’t we call out the muslims for the murdering terrorists that their population seems to generate with such frequency? Nobody is saying that most muslims are terrorists but aren’t most terrorists muslims (at least right now)? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/158 "2010-08-23T17:36:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I really need to go into the book business and put out loads of books that really offend people. Imagine how many of those Qurans they’re buying just so they can burn them. > > And if I stock American flags too I can sell to the Middle East market after they hear about the Quran burning. > > Profit! I must say that would be a most meaningful gesture to symbolize what America is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/159 "2010-08-23T17:41:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When the fuck can we call out the global Muslim community for these assholes in their midst? We call out the otherwise inoffensive teabaggers for the racists in their midst and attribute some of that racism to all of them, why can’t we call out the muslims for the murdering terrorists that their population seems to generate with such frequency? We don’t call out teabaggers. We call out the Tea Party. We don’t call out Muslims. We call out radical Islam. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891/160 "2010-08-23T17:42:46Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > Frankly, I don’t give a shit why they’re doing it but extremist asshatery in Islam seems to be far more prevalent than extremist asshattery in almost any other community. Why is that? Is it my imaginiation? > > Almost certainly, yes. what percentage of terrorism is commtted by muslims? > [@](#): > > This is a straw man. > > Who said anything about US bases? Osama Bin Laden > [@](#): > > Anyway, there is a considerable difference between a country giving the US permission to have a base there and getting invaded. I would have thought that would have been obvious to anyone. :rolleyes: I didn’t think we invaded Saudi Arabia. You do realizet aht 9/11 happened BEFORE we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan right? > [@](#): > > Another straw man. > > Who said it was, or that that was a reason? Its one of the common rationales I hear for why these places breed terrorists. > [@](#): > > Perhaps because if we understand what their grievances are we would be in a better position to work something out and stop any future bloodshed. > > Too simple? > > Just ask yourself what is the difference between yourself and some hotheaded blow hard Iraqi who asks the same questions about the US who invaded his country and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. > > He’s actually got a lot more to get worked up about than you have. 😉 You don’t think we’ve been trying to “work something out”? I’ve spent the last ten years trying to udnerstand why soemone would do seomthing like 9/11 and after years of trying to walk a mile in their shoes, I can’t empathize with them. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing. Perhaps we play nice because we simply can’t get rid of them militarily but I think its time we stopped trying to be so understanding. As for the Iraqi hothead, I would say that we had no right to invade Iraq and Iraq had every right to defend itself and all that blood is on our hands. But after the democratic elections in Iraq, all that insurgent activity falls on the heads of the insurgents. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Isn’t it about time we started asking WTF is wrong with Islam? What is their fucking problem? > > Only if you have so little knowledge of what’s going on in the middle East that you don’t find the answer blindingly obvious. Don’t be coy. Why don’t you enlighten me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-books-in-the-us-burn-quran-day/550891.md?page=9)