# Burning Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555 "2004-08-06T02:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/21 "2004-08-06T18:59:40Z")
But that isn’t Michael Moore’s question. I saw him on _Real Time_ the other day. He turned to whoever that Congressman was and said, “Would you send your kid to die in Iraq?” That’s a stupid fucking question. No sane person would send their kid to die anywhere. But if their kid is an adult and wants to join the U.S. military, they have to be aware of the risks involved. If we go to war, they have to fight. This whole emotional argument about sending your kid off to die is a red herring. It really is that simple. But damn. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/22 "2004-08-06T19:03:12Z")
My last post was addressed to **andros** , obviously. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/23 "2004-08-06T19:36:43Z")
Ooh! Ooh! Can I? Can I? **I burning your Bush!** ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/24 "2004-08-06T19:43:19Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Let’s say we unemploy all Republicans and draft all Republican sons off to Iraq to fight “The Bush Wars”. Since I’m self-employed because I believe job security starts with one’s self, I guess you’ll have to forcibly remove me from my job (and my wife too since we work together), let alone remove 65 of my employees of all political affiliations, race, creed and orientation. Maybe I can determine who the non-Republicans are in my workforce, and have them (if they are even qualified - which none of them are) do rotating shifts running my business while I’m off hunting scwuwy wabbits, and showing my newly enlisted sons (ages 16, 8, and 2, who none of them declared any political affliation) “the ropes” out in some distant land. I guess my wife can fill Lindy England’s shoes and run some guys around on a leash in some jail out there… Stop me when this is beginning to sound too stupid…:wally But please put down the blunt, dude…you’re giving the Democrats a black eye…or a red eye or whatever color eye. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/25 "2004-08-06T19:46:45Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > OK, here’s a modest proposal. I just wanted to add…BAAHHWWWWHHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAA! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/26 "2004-08-06T20:16:36Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > But that isn’t Michael Moore’s question. > > I saw him on _Real Time_ the other day. He turned to whoever that Congressman was and said, “Would you send your kid to die in Iraq?” To add, this question falls along the lines of… Would you send your kid to die in a burning building? (If your kid is a fireman.) Would you send your kid to die in a shootout with bank robbers? (if your kid is a policeman.) Moore’s question is asked on the premise that the kid will _certainly_ die when he is sent to Iraq, which has never been the case. Possibly die (odds about 1/125)…yes; Certainly die (125/125)…no. “Bullshit, Moron.”, should have been the congressman’s answer, but alas, there are idiots on both sides of the fence. If you’re 18 and you enlisted for any job, you are legally allowed to make the decision to take on any job that is dangerous, regardless who the boss is, a relative or non-relative. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/27 "2004-08-06T20:17:45Z")
I’m calling bullshit. > [@](#): > > The small group of lawmakers who’ve announced or confirmed that their kids are now serving includes Johnson, Kline and Republican Reps. Todd Akin of Missouri, Duncan Hunter of California, Marilyn Musgrave of Colorado, Ed Schrock of Virginia and Joe Wilson of South Carolina. [Cite.](http://web.naplesnews.com/03/04/naples/d930340a.htm) Statistically speaking, even without accounting for the fact that many congresspeople are 60 or over (and thus their children are in their 30s and 40s), Congress is very much _over_represented. Do the math. Of course why I bother to refute an OP this lame is another question. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/28 "2004-08-06T20:37:47Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Biblical rant? I was expecting some kind of thread about STDs. I thought they were adding a burning _ **WO** _man out there in the desert with that Burning Man. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/29 "2004-08-06T21:31:39Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > But that isn’t Michael Moore’s question. > > I saw him on _Real Time_ the other day. He turned to whoever that Congressman was and said, “Would you send your kid to die in Iraq?” > > That’s a stupid fucking question. No sane person would send their kid to die anywhere. But if their kid is an adult and wants to join the U.S. military, they have to be aware of the risks involved. If we go to war, they have to fight. This whole emotional argument about sending your kid off to die is a red herring. > > It really is that simple. But damn. Yes, if we go to war, they have to fight. I’m not arguing that, of course. The point Moore is trying in his own special way to make is that people would be less likely to approve of an immoral war if they knew that their loved ones were going to be in harm’s way. And that’s the issue I see. Yes, there are risks to being in the military. You seem to be saying that one of those risks is being ordered to fight an immoral war. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/30 "2004-08-06T21:32:43Z")
Caveat: I’m not saying the Iraq war is immoral, necessarily. But certainly Moore is making that assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/31 "2004-08-06T21:42:51Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > OK, here’s a modest proposal. You might say it’s a litmus test to see just how grand the GOP really is. Let’s say we unemploy all Republicans and draft all Republican sons off to Iraq to fight “The Bush Wars”. That way, the GOP supporters can really have a taste of their own medicine. > > Now, don’t blame me…I’m just laissez faire as long as you don’t touch my piece of the pie, right? > > Osama might have toppled the Twin Towers, but then Bush toppled the U.N. So, who’s the lesser of the two weasels? - Jinx Hey, that’s a great idea. I can continue being in the Guard and when I’m not off fighting wars I’m collecting welfare, Social Security, whatever the Democrat entitlement of the week is, and while I’m sitting at home living the good life the richest Democrats can gouge themselves out of half of their money to subsidize my living. Woohoo! Conservatives of the world unite! We never have to work again! **Jinx** and his ilk can just roll up their sleeves for us and work twice as hard while we sit on a beach drinking our rum-and-Cokes, knowing full well that since all of our income is welfare we don’t have to pay any income taxes! Good plan, dude. I want you to get right on it for me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/32 "2004-08-06T21:49:30Z")
Maybe so, **Doors**. . . but it’s be Monarch rum and Shasta. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/33 "2004-08-06T21:49:35Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Hey, that’s a great idea. I can continue being in the Guard and when I’m not off fighting wars I’m collecting welfare, Social Security, whatever the Democrat entitlement of the week is, and while I’m sitting at home living the good life the richest Democrats can gouge themselves out of half of their money to subsidize my living. > > Woohoo! Conservatives of the world unite! We never have to work again! **Jinx** and his ilk can just roll up their sleeves for us and work twice as hard while we sit on a beach drinking our rum-and-Cokes, knowing full well that since all of our income is welfare we don’t have to pay any income taxes! > > Good plan, dude. I want you to get right on it for me. I’m guessing the unemployed pubbie non-combattants get sent to the homeless shelters. I could be wrong, but that’s _my_ preferred read of the scenerio. So, uh, stay the fuck away from me, you, you dingy freeloading piece of homeless shit. How can you live with yourself? Get a fucking job! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/34 "2004-08-06T23:18:08Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Yes, if we go to war, they have to fight. I’m not arguing that, of course. The point Moore is trying in his own special way to make is that people would be less likely to approve of an immoral war if they knew that their loved ones were going to be in harm’s way. No he’s not, all he’s showing is that most members of congress don’t have kids in Iraq. He didn’t ask how many had loved ones in the war. He didn’t ask how many had kids. He didn’t ask how many have children of age to serve in the military. Trying to guess what people would do is rediculous. They might have also sucked it up and realize they represent their consituants and vote the way they thought their people wanted, not their personal wishes. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/35 "2004-08-06T23:21:07Z")
Everytime you make an appeal to emotion, God kills a kitten. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/36 "2004-08-06T23:47:40Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I’m calling bullshit. > > > [@](#): > > > > The small group of lawmakers who’ve announced or confirmed that their kids are now serving includes Johnson, Kline and Republican Reps. Todd Akin of Missouri, Duncan Hunter of California, Marilyn Musgrave of Colorado, Ed Schrock of Virginia and Joe Wilson of South Carolina. Unfortunately, this isn’t the issue Moore addresses in the movie: > [@](#): > > FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “Out of the 535 members of Congress, only one had **an enlisted son in Iraq.** ” > > “Only four of the 535 members of Congress have children in the military; only one, Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., has a child who fought in Iraq.” > –Kevin Horrigan, “Hired Guns,” _St. Louis Post-Dispatch,_ May 11, 2003. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/37 "2004-08-06T23:54:24Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > No he’s not, all he’s showing is that most members of congress don’t have kids in Iraq. He didn’t ask how many had loved ones in the war. He didn’t ask how many had kids. He didn’t ask how many have children of age to serve in the military. Trying to guess what people would do is rediculous. They might have also sucked it up and realize they represent their consituants and vote the way they thought their people wanted, not their personal wishes. That’s all he’s _demonstrating_, sure. Many of us are smart enough to realize that. But that’s not his rhetorical intent. Alls I’m saying is that his rhetorical tactics are easy to understand, and are simplistic and flawed enough with mischaracterizing them. And Moore is definitely responsible for the deaths of many kittens. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/38 "2004-08-07T00:24:08Z")
Y’know, I’d prefer the people in power to NOT be emotionally close to an issue they’re deciding on. Would you want to be operated on by a doctor in the middle of spasming sobs because he just broke up with his girlfriend? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/39 "2004-08-07T00:56:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Yes, there are risks to being in the military. You seem to be saying that one of those risks is being ordered to fight an immoral war. Isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555/40 "2004-08-07T00:58:49Z")
Would you want the tax laws to be made by people who don’t pay any taxes? Would you want decisions on abortion-rights to be made by males only, so they’re not “emotionally close”? Would you want the Democratic candidate chosen by the Republican party, and the Republican candidate chosen by the Democratic party, so that they’re not “emotionally involved”? Of course, we have some of that now. The decisions on public transportation are made by people who never use public transportation. Decisions on welfare are made by people who have never been in need. And, as I think on it, I guess that in the past most abortion/pregnancy decisions HAVE been made by males only. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burning-bush/258555.md?page=3)