# Burying the "Jesus Horses" Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2007, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368 "2007-12-27T10:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/81 "2007-12-28T13:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] If you lie about them, they will lie about you. [/QUOTE] They started it. He who sows the wind, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/82 "2007-12-28T14:11:31Z")
Actually the first co-author of _he Official Politically Correct Dictionary and Handbook_ is **Henry** Beard. That’s right, many of the terms bandied about as “political correctness gone mad” are from the bloke who wrote \*Miss Piggy’s Guide to Life \*. This is a terrific thread. Good for you **Zoe**. And **Wendell**? - you’re a stalwart. Careless adoption of things like the term “Jesus Horses” is dangerous stuff. Sure, it’s not that sillier than some things that Creationists really say, but it’s easy to forget that it’s not really true. At that point you’re already at “it doesn’t matter if it’s quite true if you’re on the right side”. If you want to stay in control of your own opinions you have to be vigilant against that kind of shit. > [@](#): > > _Wendell Wagner_ > All points of view deserve respect, even those which are mostly nonsense. I agree with **The King of Soup** in that > [@](#): > > A point of view is not a person, it is an artifact, and therefore is not automatically deserving of respect. _People_ are due respect as opinion-holders and so is the truth. So if a person holds a view which is mostly nonsense the truth requires that their view be demolished with honour and their personhood requires that it be done respectfully. And if the view is avowedly held without support of reason you’ve got to leave it there. But in a political situation where reciprocity is unlikely to be forthcoming, I’m inclined to be less kind. I’m quite willing to ridicule someone’s view in a public forum in order to be persuasive. But not to lie. Yeah, it’s bad tactics, but as much as that it’s giving hostages to self-deception. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/83 "2007-12-28T15:07:14Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Yeah. I get all that. I get what your are saying. I completely understand why someone might think that certain Christians believe in Jesus Horses. I just don’t believe anyone can honestly believe they would actually _call dinosaurs Jesus Horses!_ Right? I mean, they believe that a serpent tempted Eve in Eden, but I have never heard Christians going around saying, “Yeah, Satan is a Talking Snake…be good or you will go to hell with the Talking Snake.” They \*know \* that sounds silly. They wouldn’t call their belief in a human-co-inhabiting dinosaur-like being “Jesus Horse”. For some of us to pretend that they would seems a bit dishonest on our part. We can tease them about Jesus Horses, but none of us should pretend that we think they actually use that term. [/QUOTE] See, I’m not getting this at all. If a few goofy-ass people actually believe that the term “jesus horse” is actually a common christian phrase, do these same people also believe that Jon Stewart is actually a news man? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/84 "2007-12-28T15:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Yeah. I get all that. I get what your are saying. I completely understand why someone might think that certain Christians believe in Jesus Horses. I just don’t believe anyone can honestly believe they would actually _call dinosaurs Jesus Horses!_ Right? I mean, they believe that a serpent tempted Eve in Eden, but I have never heard Christians going around saying, “Yeah, Satan is a Talking Snake…be good or you will go to hell with the Talking Snake.” They \*know \* that sounds silly. They wouldn’t call their belief in a human-co-inhabiting dinosaur-like being “Jesus Horse”. For some of us to pretend that they would seems a bit dishonest on our part. We can tease them about Jesus Horses, but none of us should pretend that we think they actually use that term. [/QUOTE] I agree, but it is a small problem at best. Honestly, \*\*Zoe \*\* should have just posted this in MPSIMS as a public service announcement and not in the pit, insulting another poster and climbing up on her “Southern” Cross again. I like the ‘Talking Snake’ part, can we start using that as another shorthand? 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/85 "2007-12-28T15:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] A [lethal combination of uterine cancer and pneumonia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shari_Lewis), it seems. ☹ [/QUOTE] Another misread! Shari Lewis died, but > [@Wikipedia](#): > > In 2000, her daughter, Mallory Lewis resumed her mother’s work with the Lamb Chop character. Lamb Chop lives! Tris ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/86 "2007-12-28T15:52:29Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Another misread! Shari Lewis died, but Lamb Chop lives! Tris [/QUOTE] Yeah, but only in the same way that the Three Stooges “continued” with Shemp. How many people think about Shemp when they hear “The Three Stooges”? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/87 "2007-12-28T16:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Yeah, but only in the same way that the Three Stooges “continued” with Shemp. How many people think about Shemp when they hear “The Three Stooges”? [/QUOTE] To be fair, Curly replaced Shemp first. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/88 "2007-12-28T16:06:00Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Yeah, but only in the same way that the Three Stooges “continued” with Shemp. How many people think about Shemp when they hear “The Three Stooges”? [/QUOTE] [Curly was the replacement for Shemp:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curly_Howard) > [@](#): > > Vaudeville star Ted Healy had a very popular stage act, in which he would try to tell jokes or sing, only to have his three stooges (show-biz slang for assistants) wander on stage and interrupt him. Larry Fine and brothers Shemp and Moe Howard were Healy’s usual stooges, and in 1930 Healy and company appeared in their first feature film, Soup to Nuts. (The film also featured a fourth member, Fred Sanborn.) Shemp left the act in 1932 for a solo career in movies, and Moe suggested that his kid brother Jerry fill the role of the third stooge. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/89 "2007-12-28T16:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] Kalhoun writes: \> And yes, there are a sizeable number of people who believe that. No, there aren’t. Are you reading this thread carefully at all? The term “Jesus horses” was first used in a _Saturday Night Live_ Weekend Update sketch by Jimmy Fallon. No one has ever used it seriously. [/quote] You’re still not getting it. The phrase “jesus horses” is not literal. It’s code for “people who discount evolution in favor of mythology”. LOTS of people believe this. The phrase does not mean that ANYONE thinks that christians believe that people rode around on saddled dinosaurs. It means the same thing as “Invisible Sky Pixie” or any other catch phrase that mocks those who believe in christian magic or the concept of a young Earth. The fact that a couple of humor impaired people are passing it off as gospel doesn’t mean the rest of us believe that christians believe that man rode dinosaurs. > [@](#): > > The King of Soup writes: > > \> Of course, if someone made a joke, and it was so plausibly similar to my own > \> opinions that a lot of people thought it was actually part of my argument, I > \> might reconsider my worldview rather than blame others for the fact that it’s so > \> easily taken for comedy and vice-versa. > > There are already lots of people who are doing precisely this. If you don’t treat other people’s opinions with respect, they won’t treat yours with respect either. They will feel free to lie about your opinions too. I am tired, for instance, of people complaining about political correctness who claim (yes, seriously complain, not just make jokes) about certain supposedly “politically correct” terminology. The problem is that the so-called politically correct terms they cite are ones that no one has ever used seriously. Many of them were made up for a humorous book called _The Official Politically Correct Dictionary and Handbook_ by Douglas Beard and Christopher Cerf. Terms that were never used seriously by anyone are now constantly being used as bludgeons in arguments as if someone once seriously used them. For instance, the term “vertically challenged” has never been used as a politically correct term for “short.” It comes from Beard and Cerf. When you lie about your opponents’ opinions in your arguments, you make it impossible for there to be any further progress in the argument. If you lie about them, they will lie about you. Not that this was directed at me, but why should I ‘respect’ an opinion that makes absolutely no sense and goes against everything mankind has come to understand about our world? Do I respect your right to _believe_ it? Certainly. However, I have no social obligation to respect your concept of god or christianity as something that should be taken seriously any more than you need to respect my opinion that it’s all a load of crap. And I think you’re being overly sensitive when you refer to jokes as “lies.” No one is tossing you to the lions here. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/90 "2007-12-28T16:09:42Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] Kalhoun writes: \> And yes, there are a sizeable number of people who believe that. No, there aren’t. Are you reading this thread carefully at all? The term “Jesus horses” was first used in a _Saturday Night Live_ Weekend Update sketch by Jimmy Fallon. No one has ever used it seriously. [/QUOTE] So you’re saying that there aren’t a lot of people who believe Dinos and people co-existed? Because your statement about SNL starting the use of Jesus Horses has nothing at all to do with what Kalhoun said… which was: > [@Kalhoun](#): > > The term “jesus horse” is an “I’m laughing at you!” term **aimed at people who believe that man and dinosaurs co-existed. And yes, there are a sizeable number of people who believe that.** All I’m saying is it’s no more far-fetched than any of the other christian crap people buy into. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/91 "2007-12-28T18:11:01Z")
Yeah, I’m still a little confused about this thread. Are the “anti-saying-jesus-horse” people claiming that: 1. No one uses the term “Jesus Horse” in a serious way, or 2. No one seriously believes humans and dinosaurs co-existed? Because I’d agree that few if any people use the term in a serious way. I don’t agree that few if any people believe humans and dinosaurs co-existed. So, if the claim is that I can’t reference “Jesus Horses” because of 1, I’d say that the claim is ridiculous. We make up funny shorthand for people’s opinions all the time. If the claim is that I can’t reference “Jesus Horses” because of 2, I’d say that I’m willing to be convinced that the incidence of belief in a Flintstonian history is so rare that I don’t need an actual term for it. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/92 "2007-12-28T18:17:27Z")
Maybe we should call people who believe that dinosaurs and people co-existed “Barnies” after the character from The Flinstones; e.g., “Those people who vote for Huckabee are just a bunch of Barnies”. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/93 "2007-12-28T18:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Morgyn] To be fair, Curly replaced Shemp first. [/QUOTE] Okay, so change it to Brian Henson taking over Kermit after Jim died. The Muppets haven’t done as well since Jim’s untimely demise. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/94 "2007-12-28T18:47:40Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Wait…huh? I just watched the special “Banned from the Bible” and they didn’t clue me in on this one! Are you saying that some of Adam’s children and these souless humans mated? And their descendants walk among us? Half-souless? [/QUOTE] That sounds right to me. Where do you think white folks come from? I keed, I keed. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/95 "2007-12-28T20:49:11Z")
I don’t really have much to add here, but “Jesus horses” has got to be one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long time, and this thread is absolutely hilarious. Almost every post has cracked me up :). So, Creationist Christians don’t use the term Jesus horses. Big deal. It’s funny…probably because with all the other wacky notions YECs hold it seems plausible Jesus horses would be one of them. Now get off your high Jesus horse and evolve a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/96 "2007-12-28T20:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] I don’t really have much to add here, but “Jesus horses” has got to be one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long time, and this thread is absolutely hilarious. Almost every post has cracked me up :). [/QUOTE] So in a perverse way, the OP has contributed to the perpetuation of the very idiom she was denouncing! The irony bush, it burns! ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/97 "2007-12-28T20:59:24Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] The irony bush, it burns! [/QUOTE] Yet it is not consumed… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/98 "2007-12-29T00:46:15Z")
The Googles do NOTHING! ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/99 "2007-12-29T01:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] That sounds right to me. Where do you think white folks come from? [/SIZE] [/QUOTE] White folks have no soul? How dare you, sir?! I think Mr. [Tom Jones](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMi2seoGPYE) disproves your point. I was actually looking for something incredibly bad for the link with Tom Jones to make the joke work, but he nailed that song, and ya gotta admit, Tom Jones had blue eyed soul _down_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/100 "2007-12-29T01:45:28Z")
The persistence with which some posters are trying to elevate a whimsical (and frankly pretty inoffensive) joke to the status of a serious and slanderous accusation almost makes me weep. Not for the humorlessness of this response (losing cause, gave it up long ago), nor even for its utter dishonesty and hypocrisy (sure it’s just a joke, and they know it, but if they pretend they think it’s serious they can paint their opponents as liars and libelers), but for its sheer dimwitted insistence that making a joke somehow violates the inherent dignity of man and is beyond the pale. This makes creationists seem somewhat more fragile, more childlike, than I’m willing to believe. Folks, being ridiculed for your ignorance is not a violation of your human rights, your right to your opinion does not include a mandate that informed people take them or you seriously, and, **Wendell Wagner** ’s bland assertions aside, some people can be influenced positively by the fact that while their sensible thoughts are respected, their sillier ideas are mocked. Some people can’t, it is true, but since these folks are immune to facts as well, there’s no reason to cater to them. When creationists, chortling, asked scientists whether it was through their mother or father that they claimed descent from an ape, it got laughs. It was insulting (far more so than the line that’s got the OP so excited), but it was a joke. The scientists did not whine and cry and claim they’d been literally accused of being the descendent of a bestial relationship. They just went on presenting their argument. And won. Creationists, you’re fighting a battle for hearts and minds and souls here. If you believe in human dignity, get some, and toughen up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368.md?page=6)