# Burying the "Jesus Horses" Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2007, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368 "2007-12-27T10:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/101 "2007-12-29T02:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] When creationists, chortling, asked scientists whether it was through their mother or father that they claimed descent from an ape, it got laughs. It was insulting (far more so than the line that’s got the OP so excited), but it was a joke. The scientists did not whine and cry and claim they’d been literally accused of being the descendent of a bestial relationship. They just went on presenting their argument. And won. [/QUOTE] \*"I would rather be descended from a humble ape than from a great gentleman who uses considerable intellectual gifts in the service of falsehood. " \* – Thomas Huxley ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/102 "2007-12-29T02:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] I don’t really have much to add here, but “Jesus horses” has got to be one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long time, and this thread is absolutely hilarious. Almost every post has cracked me up :). So, Creationist Christians don’t use the term Jesus horses. Big deal. It’s funny…probably because with all the other wacky notions YECs hold it seems plausible Jesus horses would be one of them. Now get off your high Jesus horse and evolve a sense of humor. [/QUOTE] Even better is to image google search it. Quite a little cottage industry of Jesus Horse are out there. The one linked to earlier with Jebus cuddling the baby dino is best though. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/103 "2007-12-29T04:58:34Z")
As much as I hate attributing false quotes to people I disagree with, I can’t really get upset at the phrase ‘Jesus Horses’. **My name is F (not really), and I laughed wholeheartedly at Sarah Silverman’s DVD entitled ‘Jesus Is Magic’, which was named for the line (quoted from memory) from her monologue:** “My husband is Catholic. But it’s not an issue-- wee tell our daughter that mommy is one of God’s chosen people, and daddy believes Jesus is magic.” If any Christians are offended at this quote, I sincerely hope you someday grow a pair. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/104 "2007-12-29T07:09:43Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kalhoun** : Is the jesus horse concept really so far-fetched, compared to what most of the world’s christians actually believe? I hadn’t really thought about it in that light. You know, I was brought up in a small town where _everyone_ believed the same thing. Some left the church later or changed their beliefs in other ways. But I guess to someone who has never had any religious beliefs or experiences with something that is mystical, I guess _all_ of it is equally bizarre. In for a penny, in for a pound! It must be very, very confusing to the non-believer. > [@](#): > > Am I allowed to laugh at the rest of it? **Kalhoun** , you can laugh all you want if it’s good-natured and you don’t point and you use your indoor voice. But tell me, what is this magic underwear of which you speak? Can I get it at the same store where I usually purchase my wadded panties? > [@](#): > > **gonzomax** : The evolution of the anti evolution. Damn. **The Urban Dictionary** done shot me down. How can I argue with that thing which defines that which is made up. Aaaarrrrgh! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/105 "2007-12-29T08:20:30Z")
> [@](#): > > **iamthewalrus(:3=**:I bet you don’t really refer to your god as a “magic sky pixie” either. “Jesus horses” is very obviously a dig at the genuinely absurd beliefs that a lot of Christians proclaim. See my comment to **Kalhoun** so that you will know that I am at least reading your content without offense and trying to see it with new eyes. And although you are right that I don’t refer to a “magic sky pixie,” I do sometimes think of God as “The Great Cosmic Glue,” so I may not be thinking exactly in the terms that you assume either. You think that our beliefs are “genuinely absurd.” I can understand that. I think some of the revelations of science that just blow me away are also “genuinely absurd,” yet they appear to be true. I’m talking about things like the universe being on a curve, the existence of black holes, the existence of dark matter and so forth. A sky pixie would be much too small. Where’s your imagination? If you are not going to believe in my God, then you are going to have to not believe in something that is much, much bigger than you have come up with so far. Actually, I’ve always wanted to respond to you just to write your cool user name. **Ravenman** , I applaud the entirety of your post. But I have a couple of comments to make in response to this: > [@](#): > > To sum up, I have a decent respect for their views because they seem to respect mine (whatever they may be). I have no problem whatsoever with observant Christians, but those who make their religion an issue of the public square shouldn’t be above criticism. That includes biting, socially relevant mockery like the whole “Jesus horses” thing. There are those who think that almost everyone living within seven hundred miles of those public squares believe in what those “Jesus horses” represent. It is important, then, that everyone know that it is “biting, socially relevant mockery” and not a true characteristic of the thing being mocked. It is even _more_ important to keep those public squares free of religious materials. > [@](#): > > **What Exit?** : As far as Zoe’s contentions about uneducated southerners however, **Cecil** supports us elitist North Easterners views. First, please capitalize _Southerners_ just as you did _North Easterners._ Then, delete _however_ and insert _are concerned_. Finally, add an _apostrophe_ after the _s_ in _Easterners_. Yes, you will find many, many mistakes in my posts. Neither you nor I are very elitist. Look at the quote from **Cecil** : > [@](#): > > **Cecil** : If you’ve a mind to put a blue state/red state, slicks/yokels spin on matters, the polls offer lots of ammunition. A 2005 Harris poll reported that 73 percent of Republicans believed in creationism as opposed to 58 percent of Democrats and 57 percent of independents. What kind of spin should you put on a person who lives in a Red State but in a Blue City? That’s the problem with broadbrush painting. You miss out on the details of individuals. Globs of people are generally boring. Besides, those states aren’t really red or blue. [This map is closer to the truth.](http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/) (Scroll down to the second map.) Most states are closer to shades of purple. But if you are driving across country, you are in big trouble if you make assumptions. And there won’t be much red or blue to guide you. **Wendell** , you must be a kindred spirit. You say it so much better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/106 "2007-12-29T11:21:01Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] \*"I would rather be descended from a humble ape than from a great gentleman who uses considerable intellectual gifts in the service of falsehood. " \* – Thomas Huxley [/QUOTE] And that’s a good example of what to do when the other side unloads a zinger: if you can’t ignore it, you go with it and try to top it or turn it around. Huxley hadn’t been slandered, he’d been insulted, his views made fun of, and he was smart enough to know it and honest enough to respond in kind (the “falsehood” he refers to isn’t the joke, it’s creationism). Notice the dearth of claims that he had been falsely accused of anything, the absence of appeals to authority to make Wilberforce modify his rhetoric, the lack of smarmy hints that _of course_ he’d be amenable to persuasion if only the other side weren’t so mean and nasty, the dire shortage of hints that their joke justified any lies _he_ might care to tell. How long would Huxley’s quote have been remembered had it gone like this? “As I had been told to do, I contacted **TubaDiva** about Bishop Wilberforce’s misleading rhetoric. My plea fell on deaf ears.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/107 "2007-12-29T11:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I hadn’t really thought about it in that light. You know, I was brought up in a small town where _everyone_ believed the same thing. Some left the church later or changed their beliefs in other ways. But I guess to someone who has never had any religious beliefs or experiences with something that is mystical, I guess _all_ of it is equally bizarre. In for a penny, in for a pound! It must be very, very confusing to the non-believer. [/quote] It is confusing, because there are so many different beliefs under one umbrella of christianity. Personally, that fact alone makes it more difficult for me to take it seriously. There just isn’t much in the way of continuity. > [@](#): > > **Kalhoun** , you can laugh all you want if it’s good-natured and you don’t point and you use your indoor voice. But tell me, what is this magic underwear of which you speak? Can I get it at the same store where I usually purchase my wadded panties? Oh, noooooo…the magic underwear is doled out by stores who have special permission from the mormon church. [http://www.mormon-underwear.com/](http://www.mormon-underwear.com/). You aren’t supposed to be able to buy them unless you’re a card-carrying mormon. (Will Mitt the Shitt cop to it? I have my doubts.) Attention: The following link is a humor piece based on the real beliefs behind the mormon underwear. The star of this piece, while providing accurate information regarding the magic underwear (as provided by current and ex-mormons), IS laughing at them: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU) I’ll let the mormons among us determine if this is good-natured. The inside voice is obviously not being used, as in addition to this Youtube piece, this was also broadcast on IFC. I’m guessing they’ll be offended. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/108 "2007-12-29T16:32:53Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] \*"I would rather be descended from a humble ape than from a great gentleman who uses considerable intellectual gifts in the service of falsehood. " \* – Thomas Huxley [/QUOTE] “I’d rather be the ape” - _A Monkey With a Gun_ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/109 "2007-12-29T23:08:29Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Actually, many, though not all of them, think that fossils are a trick by Satan to lead us astray. [/QUOTE] I give you the [LOLvurzhun](http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/3c/Groundfaith.jpg). You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/110 "2007-12-30T00:11:33Z")
In his debate with Wilberforce, Huxley said that he would be ashamed to be connected with a man who used great gifts to obscure the truth. (See above.) In this, I’m afraid that you differ from Huxley. My contact with **Tuba Diva** was not an appeal to authority. It was an appeal to capability. I asked only that she amend the title so that it reflect the truth rather than obscure it. And I also posted the truth within that particular thread as well. And returned to the subject here. As for the Wilberforce : Huxley debate itself, I think that Wilburforce left with his evidence of the remnants of a tail between his legs. I am no Creationist. But I do take issue with Huxley on this statement: ‘The principle of natural selection is absolutely incompatible with the word of God’ – Thomas Huxley That’s true only if one takes everything in the Bible literally. Worldwide, most Christians don’t. Of course, in some measure we can probably thank Huxley for that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/111 "2007-12-30T00:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I asked only that she amend the title so that it reflect the truth rather than obscure it. [/QUOTE] It was a Pit thread, and the expectation for absolute veracity in titles is much lower here. If I titled a thread, \*\*“Zoe is a God-Rotten Sweaty Lump of Dogmeat Whore Bitch Strumpet” \*\*, would you also entreat the mods to remove the whore part, in the interests of accuracy? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/112 "2007-12-30T00:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > **apt ronym** : Is your argument that most people in the Deep South aren’t ignorant at all, or that they’re not as ignorant as New Yorkers make them out to be? Neither description fits my argument. I wasn’t was talking about the South in general, not just the Deep South. I don’t know if most New Yorkers make them out to be ignorant or not. Jimmy Fallon did a few years ago, but he did it as a joke and not necessarily as a reflection of his real views. All human beings are ignorant of many things. But there are people who seem to take pleasure in painting other groups of people as being inferior in intellect according to where they live. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/113 "2007-12-30T01:41:33Z")
[http://users.ox.ac.uk/~jrlucas/legend.html](http://users.ox.ac.uk/~jrlucas/legend.html) for an interesting look at how the popular account of the Huxley-Wilberforce debate may have been a tale that grew in the telling. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/114 "2007-12-30T01:46:54Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] All points of view deserve respect, even those which are mostly nonsense. By accusing someone (even if they are thoroughly confused) of a wrong view that they don’t hold, you don’t make your argument better. If anything, you make it worse. When they discover that you’ve artificially pumped up your argument by accusing them of something they don’t believe, you make it harder to convince them of anything. If they discover that you add false statements to your arguments, they will be more likely to ignore anything else you say. The point of argumentation is to convince your opponents, not to make yourself feel better by treating your opponents like dirt. And it’s not true that everyone understood that the “Jesus horse” claim was just a joke. Several people who’ve posted to this thread have said that they thought that it was for real. [/QUOTE] You’re mistaking willful ignorance for a point of view. The idea that the earth is 10000 years old, that dinosaurs never existed, or that man and dinosaurs coexisted in spite of all of the scientific evidence is not a point of view. It’s pure stupidity and as such deserves to be mocked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/115 "2007-12-30T02:08:30Z")
I may have to rethink the “humorless” diagnosis. Anyone who could unload _this_ howler [QUOTE=Zoe] …My contact with **Tuba Diva** was not an appeal to authority. It was an appeal to capability… [/QUOTE] with a straight face has most comics I know beat a mile. Little did I know: I thought **TubaDiva** ’s ability to change thread titles to suit individual posters was predicated on her position as administrator, not on her ability to type. But that barely beats the subtlety with which **Zoe** , having been twice shown the exact words Huxley used, still manages to get his meaning just a little bit wrong. Other misleading assertions are less funny. It may be true that most Christians worldwide are not Biblical literalists (especially if you count Catholics), but it is true that creationism is the product and the pet of that brood, and that’s what we’re talking about. I think it’s likely that Wilberforce and Ussher wouldn’t need a second glance to disavow any association with creationists today, but neither would a lot of poll respondants if they knew more about those with whom they were aligning themselves. And I’ll need better proof that someone owns the truth (or at least can find it with both hands, a map, a team of Sherpas and a nose ring tethered to it by a very short leash) before I’ll bother with their attempts to define _my_ relationship to it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368/116 "2007-12-30T02:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] As for the Wilberforce : Huxley debate itself, I think that Wilburforce left with his evidence of the remnants of a tail between his legs. I am no Creationist. But I do take issue with Huxley on this statement: ‘The principle of natural selection is absolutely incompatible with the word of God’ – Thomas Huxley That’s true only if one takes everything in the Bible literally. Worldwide, most Christians don’t. Of course, in some measure we can probably thank Huxley for that. [/QUOTE] OK, fair enough. On what basis do you object to Huxley’s statement? Absent the Bible, what do we look to for the Word of God? Can you speak for God on this issue? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/burying-the-jesus-horses-myth/431368.md?page=5)