# Bush Admin & FEMA start shifting blame to locals - Crass ass covering or justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065 "2005-09-04T17:32:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/221 "2005-09-12T13:04:57Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > So you aint gonna vote for Bush in '08 either? Well that makes it purdy near unanimous. I’m not going to vote for a Republican because no matter who’s nominated it’ll just be more of the same so long as the current junta control the GOP. OK, maybe if the Pubbies nominate McCain and the Dems nominate Lieberman I’d think about it… But even then I’d think hard about it, but regardless of the outcome, I’d figure our leadership would improve a great deal. So short answer, voting Democratic, long answer, probably voting Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/222 "2005-09-12T13:55:25Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Hindsight being 20/20, we should have made those levees nukeproof, but would the electorate have nodded yes to make that investment? Not on a prayer-other projects took precedence. No one asked me if I thought the occupation of Iraq took precedence over work on the levees. Did someone ask you? ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/223 "2005-09-12T14:50:34Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I’m not going to vote for a Republican because no matter who’s nominated it’ll just be more of the same so long as the current junta control the GOP. OK, maybe if the Pubbies nominate McCain and the Dems nominate Lieberman I’d think about it… But even then I’d think hard about it, but regardless of the outcome, I’d figure our leadership would improve a great deal. > > So short answer, voting Democratic, long answer, probably voting Democratic. Honestly, you are saying you would have voted for a republican before Katrina? I am sorry, but I find that very very hard to believ. You seem to me to be one of the most left leaning people on this message board, and that says alot. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/224 "2005-09-12T14:56:27Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Honestly, you are saying you would have voted for a republican before Katrina? > > I am sorry, but I find that very very hard to believ. You seem to me to be one of the most left leaning people on this message board, and that says alot. Depends on what you mean by “is” … I mean, “before.” There was a time when the Repubs were sufficiently close to the political center that they could conceivably have nominated a candidate who would have appealed to me more than some, say, center-right Democrat from a southern state. No longer, and not since Reagan, really. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/225 "2005-09-12T15:16:26Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > John 11:35 > > Jesus belched, farted, and asked “Who? Me?” > > If a swine wrote the Bible. ROTFLMAO!! 😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/226 "2005-09-12T16:53:27Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Did the locals and the state and the feds want to spend money for preventive action on a statistically unlikely occurrence? No. Well, the locals had always been asking for more money for the levees, going back decades. But as you point out: > [@](#): > > The levees are maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers, and improvements thereto aren’t the purview of a local official who can award a contract to Fred & Ed’s Levee Improvement & Storm Doors, LLC. So it’s the domain of the feds, and politicians from Alaska and Montana have higher priorities than some levees a thousand miles away, so they don’t get what they need. To blame the Bush administration on the levee failures is kind of pointless. Yes, he did slash the funding, but even if the funding were there, the levees that failed wouldn’t have been involved. If you want to blame bush, you also have to blame every administration for the last 70 years. But talk of the levees is really just a Red Herring anyway. “It’s not our fault the levees gave way” line is ignoring the real complaint, and that is the pathetic and bungled response that is continuing on until this day. And as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, there’s no avoiding that the Bush administration and their actions holds a majority of the responsibility for that monumental fuckup. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/227 "2005-09-12T20:18:43Z")
Always the last to know Part 2: According to [Salon](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2005/09/12/brown/index.html): > [@](#): > > CNN is now airing footage of an interview today with President Bush. Asked to comment on Brown’s resignation, the president said he hadn’t spoken with Chertoff yet and therefore didn’t have anything to say. “Maybe you know something I don’t,” he said. For those unaware, Michael Brown has just resigned as head of FEMA. (This after it turned out [he had never been confirmed by the Senate in the first place](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2005/09/12/roberts/index.html).) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/228 "2005-09-13T01:24:04Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Short answer: any intra-coastal or inter-coastal waterway, dam or retaining buttress, within public access or governmental dominion is under the direct overview of the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers. See [Guidance on Levee Certification For The National Flood Insurance Program](http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/functions/cw/cecwp/General_guidance/levee.htm) Are you sure? I didn’t see anything in the link saying that the ACoE had dominion over the levees. It seemed to just be guidelines on how to appraise them for insurance purposes. I tried reading it a couple times but didn’t see anything I could point to on there. [GlobalSecurity.org](http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-risk-new-orleans.htm) implies that the levees are controlled on a local level: > [@GlobalSecurity.org](#): > > Orleans Levee District, a quasi-governmental body, is resposponsible for 129 miles of earthen levees, floodwalls, 190 floodgates, 2 flood control structures, and 100 valves. The governor appoints six of the board’s eight members, and they serve at his pleasure. When a storm approaches it is responsible for closing the hundreds of hurricane protection floodgates and valves on levees surrounding the city. All residents outside of these levees evacuate. > > The District’s General Fund accounts for all operating funds for the daily operations of the Administrative Offices, Field Forces, Law Enforcement and support operations necessary to maintain the Board’s level of services for flood protection and public safety. > > The District’s Special Levee Improvement Projects Fund (SLIP) accounts for the capital funds for major maintenance and/or capital improvements of all physical property and plant owned by the Board that is identified as directly related to flood protection. > > The District’s General Improvement Fund accounts for the capital funds for major maintenance or capital improvement of all physical property and plant owned by the Board that is not identified as directly related to flood protection. These projects relate to land reclamation, commercial buildings, improvements (other than buildings), and infrastructure. I’m extremely disappointed in the Federal response to Katrina but I haven’t seen anything hard saying that the levees were outside the ability of the locals to enhance and maintain. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/229 "2005-09-13T04:23:40Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Well, the locals had always been asking for more money for the levees, going back decades. But as you point out:So it’s the domain of the feds, and politicians from Alaska and Montana have higher priorities than some levees a thousand miles away, so they don’t get what they need. > > To blame the Bush administration on the levee failures is kind of pointless. Yes, he did slash the funding, but even if the funding were there, the levees that failed wouldn’t have been involved. If you want to blame bush, you also have to blame every administration for the last 70 years. > > But talk of the levees is really just a Red Herring anyway. “It’s not our fault the levees gave way” line is ignoring the real complaint, and that is the pathetic and bungled response that is continuing on until this day. And as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, there’s no avoiding that the Bush administration and their actions holds a majority of the responsibility for that monumental fuckup. This is essentially what I’ve been saying in this and other threads-yes, there were mistakes made on many levels, but seeds were sown which predate the current administration, and I’m happy with an investigation to identify the areas of failure as opposed to rushing forward with tar and feathers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/230 "2005-09-13T04:50:27Z")
Definitely. Mustn’t jump to conclusions on flimsy, albeit overwhelming, evidence. Should wait until Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/231 "2005-09-13T04:59:52Z")
Better yet, wait till after the 2006 elections. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/232 "2005-09-13T05:16:01Z")
Are you incapable of reading that I’ve supported a bipartisan investigation into the whole response? Or does that not play into your gameplan of ignoring anything which isn’t supportive of your view that Bush is the antichrist? Some of us on the right send messages indicative that we’d meet at a middle ground, and you ignore them, and then wonder why we conclude you’re unreachable. Nah, strike the last sentence. You don’t give a fuck-candidates unembraceable to the middle and bitching is your mantra. You’d be lost without it. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/233 "2005-09-13T06:05:35Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Are you incapable of reading that I’ve supported a bipartisan investigation into the whole response? Or does that not play into your gameplan of ignoring anything which isn’t supportive of your view that Bush is the antichrist? Some of us on the right send messages indicative that we’d meet at a middle ground, and you ignore them, and then wonder why we conclude you’re unreachable. Nah, strike the last sentence. You don’t give a fuck-candidates unembraceable to the middle and bitching is your mantra. You’d be lost without it. I’ve found that when I, who generally lean left, advance a moderate viewpoint, only those on the right unwilling to compromise seem to respond. It appears that the same happens when someone on the right tries to make motions towards the middle. Thanks for being willing to have a bipartisan investigation, **danceswithcats**. I don’t think personally that an investigation is called for, because I think the problem is obvious. But if a bipartisan investigation is what is required to build consensus between parties to assure this never happens again, I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/234 "2005-09-13T07:00:16Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > Thanks for being willing to have a bipartisan investigation, **danceswithcats**. I don’t think personally that an investigation is called for, because I think the problem is obvious. But if a bipartisan investigation is what is required to build consensus between parties to assure this never happens again, I’m all for it. I agree that certain aspects of the problem are obvious. That said, unless all the issues are investigated, the learning cannot be considered fruitful. From the President on down, I’d like to see a level of report delivered which is equal to those from the NTSB. Yes, Mr. Bush will get some tar, and let that tarring serve as an example to any other person who wishes to occupy the oval office. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/235 "2005-09-13T11:49:11Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Are you incapable of reading that I’ve supported a bipartisan investigation into the whole response? I think **elucidator** was attempting to draw an amusing parallel between the current administration’s previous jump to conclusions based on flimsy evidence and the present rush to do the same in the case of Katrina–he’s agreeing with you in other words. However, **elucidator** has a penchant for speaking rather eliptically, plus he’s a bit of a dick, so I could easily be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/236 "2005-09-13T12:29:53Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Are you incapable of reading that I’ve supported a bipartisan investigation into the whole response? Or does that not play into your gameplan of ignoring anything which isn’t supportive of your view that Bush is the antichrist? Some of us on the right send messages indicative that we’d meet at a middle ground, and you ignore them, and then wonder why we conclude you’re unreachable. Nah, strike the last sentence. You don’t give a fuck-candidates unembraceable to the middle and bitching is your mantra. You’d be lost without it. I think the problem you’re having here is that so often investigations of the sort you’re describing turn into elaborate stalling gambits, dragging on and on until the public interest in the event being investigated turns into apathy, at which point a report is quietly released to sink into oblivion. I’m sure you’re not advocating anything of the sort, but given the track record of the present administration, that’s exactly what it would be, if not an out-and-out whitewash as well. Something that was mandated to be completed by, oh, next year about this time, well, that’d be different. And extremely unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/237 "2005-09-13T15:40:06Z")
My worries about a bi-partisan commission come from the ‘partisan’ part. Even if it’s a truly bi-partisan commission and not one weighted towards the Republicans as has been put forth by the majority leaders, it will end up just mired in politics. An independant investigation, while not without it’s political moments (see Starr), can make more progress if a career professional is at the helm (see Fitzgerald), and have more of a chance to ultimately force the right changes to be made. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/238 "2005-09-13T16:39:30Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > An independant investigation, while not without it’s political moments (see Starr), can make more progress if a career professional is at the helm (see Fitzgerald), and have more of a chance to ultimately force the right changes to be made. My guess is that Halliburton will be assigned the job to investigate. And regarding those who are saying, “just slow down now, let’s wait, let’s take our time and investigate…” Sorry, but that ship has sailed. If we don’t start nailing down the facts and documents now, there will be nothing to find later. After the Rove incident and Enron and other such events, I don’t want to give the evil Bush elves any more time to shred documents while we politely wait in the foyer and get tea, cookies and sociology lessons from Barbara Bush. Call me a cynic, but Bush is already covering his ass on television “you say Brown resigned from FEMA today? Gee, I’ll have to wait to get back to Washington to see if that is true…” This hardly bodes well for an honest investigation led by the overlords. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/239 "2005-09-13T17:36:32Z")
Maybe we can at least wait until we know how many people died before pronouncing judgement. Or not. Whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/240 "2005-09-13T20:06:58Z")
[This](http://www2.dccc.org/docs/conyersgaokatrina.pdf) makes interesting reading. From the Congressional Research Service dated yesterday: > [@](#): > > **Conclusions** > > From the above review of the statutory authorities under the Stafford Act, the letters of Governor Blanco to President Bush requesting first a declaration of emergency and then a major disaster declaration in anticipation of the effects of Hurricane Katrina, as well as the President’s responses to those requests in declaraing a state of emergency with respect to Louisiana effective August 26, 2005, and continuing, and declaring a major disaster with respect to Louisiana effective August 28, 2005, and continuing, it would appear that the Governor did take the steps necessary to request emergency and major disaster declarations for the State of Louisiana in anticipation of Hurricane Katrina. In response to the Governor’s requests, it appears that the President did take the steps necessary to trigger the availability of Stafford Act emergency assistance and disaster assistance, by declaring first a state of emergency, and later a major disaster, and authorizing specific Stafford Act assistance to be made available to the State of Louisiana to respond to the effects of the Hurricane. We hope that this will be of assistance to you. Maybe I’m misreading, but this does seem to put the ball in the administration’s court. Blanco did what she was expected to do procedurally, and whatever follow-through (or failure of same) appears to be on the federal level. This, of course, does not address whatever issues (bureaucratic, corruption, lack of foresight, etc.) that may have plagued the state and Blanco’s execution of duties in general leading up to Katrina, but it does seem to answer those who claim that her timeliness and/or failure to follow protocol were in the wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=13)