# Bush Admin & FEMA start shifting blame to locals - Crass ass covering or justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065 "2005-09-04T17:32:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/101 "2005-09-05T16:26:23Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Not only is the Bush Administration starting to blame the locals, but they are doing it in their same style - they are lying their weasely asses off. > > [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week\_2005\_09\_04.php#006418](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_09_04.php#006418) > > It’s all the same MO - a senior White House official, on background, lies his fat little ass off, the press mindlessly licks it up, and the right wing propaganda machine disseminates it happily. Eventually, we get fuckers like the little brainless turd burgler **Stephe96** spouting these lies as fact, and public opinion is swayed. > > . Wow, that’s some scary talent employed over there at the Washington Post, huh? What a crack team of reporters. I mean, how fucking difficult is it to verify whether the governor of a state did or did not declare a state of emergency? Just when you think liberals can’t possibly get any dumber… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/102 "2005-09-05T16:37:38Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > She did it before the president. > > Reading comprehension is a key tool in fighting ignorance. But see? **SHE** declared a state of emergency…and therefore is a fuckup who did nothing. However, back in Post #4 of this thread the fact that Bush declared a state of emergency is given as proof of his divine right to rule. duh. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/103 "2005-09-05T16:44:46Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > But see? **SHE** declared a state of emergency…and therefore is a fuckup who did nothing. > > However, back in Post #4 of this thread the fact that Bush declared a state of emergency is given as proof of his divine right to rule. > > duh. > > -Joe She declared a state of emergency. Why didn’t she act upon and implement her own state’s evacuation plans? She was obviously aware of the danger, right? Why are 100 school buses still sitting under 6 feet of water in New Orleans, when they could have been used to move residents to higher ground? Here’s Governor Blank-Stare’s plan for action, as far as I can tell: Step #1: Declare state of emergency Step #2: Snap into action and…do nothing Step #3: Continue to do nothing Step #4: Nothing Step #5: Blame Bush ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/104 "2005-09-05T16:59:30Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Just when you think liberals can’t possibly get any dumber… …they trust a conservative to tell the truth? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/105 "2005-09-05T17:06:57Z")
New Orleans would not be in the dreadful state it is in today if _someone_ had responded quickly and effectively to the **holes in the levees**. Who was that someone _supposed_ to be? Who controls the levee system? Why did they take 36 hours to begin responding to the holes in the levees? Were any preparations whatsoever made to pre-position men and resources so that the holes in those levees could be dealt with in a non-geological time frame? What happened to prevent a timely response to the breached levees? ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/106 "2005-09-05T17:12:32Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Hmmm. You yourself said in posing the hypothetical that “the effect would be similar” to the hurricane. If that’s not true, then what good is your hypothetical? Puxatawney doesn’t have the facilities for dealing with either a nuclear attack or a cat 5 hurricane. The Department of Homeland Security is supposed to assist under those circumstances. Read my posts over again, you’re obviously not getting it. > [@John Mace](#): > > As pointed out by **AFAIK** , you are extrapolating well beyond the text of that manual. You make it soulnd like the local authorities can just sit back and watch in the event of a disaster as the feds come marching in to save the day. “Extrapolating beyond the text of the manual”? I’m QUOTING what’s on their site! There’s no extrapolation! Follow the link I put in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6545517&postcount=92) and see for yourself! I’ll requote it for you just to drive the point home for the third time: > [@The Department of Homeland Security](#): > > In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st (2003) for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America’s families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS. The only way I’m ‘extrapolating’ is if Katrina wouldn’t be categorized as either a “Natural disaster or large-scale emergency”. If you don’t think that it qualifies, please say so clearly so we can all laugh at you. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/107 "2005-09-05T17:21:52Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > She declared a state of emergency. So why was Bush’s declaration touted by you as been a Good Thing? Way back in Post #4 you made it sound as if his declaration was the end of his responsibility. Bish met his responsibilities by declaring an emergency. QED. But when she does it (after you’d claimed she didn’t, IIRC) it is of no value. Are you totally fact-blind or just stupid? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/108 "2005-09-05T17:37:16Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Are you totally fact-blind or just stupid? > > -Joe Are those the only choices? Can we throw in intellectually dishonest? Malignantly obfuscatory? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/109 "2005-09-05T17:56:19Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Are those the only choices? Can we throw in intellectually dishonest? Malignantly obfuscatory? How about Karl Rove’s bitch? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/110 "2005-09-05T17:59:47Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Are those the only choices? Can we throw in intellectually dishonest? Malignantly obfuscatory? I prefer to think I don’t spend much time interacting with evil, so I’ll just stick with rock-stupid teflon-brained moron. Because saying what I really think would be rude. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/111 "2005-09-05T18:42:35Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > “Extrapolating beyond the text of the manual”? I’m QUOTING what’s on their site! There’s no extrapolation! > > Follow the link I put in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6545517&postcount=92) and see for yourself! > > I’ll requote it for you just to drive the point home for the third time: > The only way I’m ‘extrapolating’ is if Katrina wouldn’t be categorized as either a “Natural disaster or large-scale emergency”. If you don’t think that it qualifies, please say so clearly so we can all laugh at you. What exactly is your point? All that quote means is that FEMA became part of DoHS on 3/1/03. Nothing else changed. It says that DoHS will coordinate the FEFDERAL response. Get it? The FEDERAL response, as in: NOT THE LOCAL RESPONSE. The locals have primary responsibility for the overall situatoin-- the Feds come in and ASSIST in cases when the locals are overwhelmed. Now, if you want to slam FEMA for responding too slowly to the request from the local authorities, fine. But your claim that the FEDS should step up and \*\*run \*\*the evacuation plan is ludicrous. No sane person would even propose that as a viable option. The feds wouldn’t have the people, equipment, or the detailed local knowledge in place to do that effectively. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/112 "2005-09-05T19:28:45Z")
All I know is: A total evacuation before the storm was impossible. There are just too many urban poor without their own transportation. Logical response was to send those that could not leave to a very sturdy structure. That’s exactly what they did. They could have stocked it with provisions but they didn’t. Strike one for city/state. But once the city flooded, the only entity that could bring forth the magnitude of aid required was the federal government. Once it was safe to fly, the sky should have been dotted with as many helicopters as could safely fly. At the very least, we expect that in 21st century America we don’t let infants die of thirst. Yet we did. The failure to supply the Superdome and the convention center with at least water is unconscionable. Babies died needless and horrible deaths due to the incompetence of the federal government. FEMA was admitted to not knowing as much as the casual cable news viewer. To be incompetent in such a defining moment of need is not consistent with keeping your job. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/113 "2005-09-05T19:55:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Now, if you want to slam FEMA for responding too slowly to the request from the local authorities, fine. But your claim that the FEDS should step up and \*\*run \*\*the evacuation plan is ludicrous. No sane person would even propose that as a viable option. The feds wouldn’t have the people, equipment, or the detailed local knowledge in place to do that effectively. Based on my reading of the [National Response Plan of the Department of Homeland Security](http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf), I believe you’d be mistaken. Please see my rather long post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6547238&postcount=81) . ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/114 "2005-09-05T20:11:12Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The failure to supply the Superdome and the convention center with at least water is unconscionable. It wasn’t “failure” to supply the Superdome. They **blocked** one attempt after another to provide help. There have been numerous accounts of this already, here’s one: > **[After Failures, Government Officials Play Blame Game (Published 2005)](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/us/nationalspecial/after-failures-government-officials-play-blame-game.html)** > > As the Bush administration tried to show a more forceful effort to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, government officials on Sunday escalated their criticism and sniping over who was to blame for the problems plaguing the initial response. ... > [@](#): > > Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on “Meet the Press.” > > **When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away, he said.** Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish’s emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA, Mr. Broussard said. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/115 "2005-09-05T20:18:04Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > It wasn’t “failure” to supply the Superdome. They **blocked** one attempt after another to provide help. There have been numerous accounts of this already, here’s one: > [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.html) Thank you for the cite. This is getting to be like an onion with endless layers. The more you peel into it the more you discover you need to peel. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/116 "2005-09-05T20:20:54Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Based on my reading of the [National Response Plan of the Department of Homeland Security](http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf), I believe you’d be mistaken. Please see my rather long post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6547238&postcount=81) . The Feds will not, and more importantly CANNOT, implement an evacuation plan unless they are authorized to do so by the state authorities. Does it say somewhere in that document that the Feds now can just skip that step? Because that is what Leviosaurus claimed in his post that started this discussion, and that is what I am responding to (my emphasis): > [@Levi](#): > > An analogy has occurred to me in the last few days - imagine NO was hit by an atomic bomb, rather than Katrina. The effects would presumably be similar, \*\*who would you expect to step up and make evacuations happen, and ensure aid got to victims? > > My answer: The Department of Homeland Security\*\*, who is supposed to have plans in place for tragedies like these. In fact, the DoHS is supposed to direct FEMA in the case of hurricane disasters like Katrina, too. That is incorrect. Absent any information about the state requesting federal aid (whch is the case in his scenario)i, the state would be expected to make evacuations happen. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/117 "2005-09-05T20:29:28Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That is incorrect. Absent any information about the state requesting federal aid (whch is the case in his scenario)i, the state would be expected to make evacuations happen. And when these evacuations didn’t happen, the Federal Government’s job is to block whatever aid may be on it’s way? Because that’s what happened. The Feds told The Red Cross to stay out because they didn’t want the people in NO to feel to comfortable. 5 miles of of trucks with provisions was turned away. 500 boats with 1000 trained sailors let by a senator was turned away. All within the first 38 hours. Turned away by the federal government. The local authorities fucked up . The federal government fucked up. Local authority’s fuck up are bad for LA. The federal government’s fuck up has implications for this whole nation. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/118 "2005-09-05T20:45:26Z")
[The (FEMA) beat goes on…](http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html) > [@](#): > > Mon Sep 5 > 3:32 P.M. Ben Morris, Slidell mayor: We are still hampered by some of the most stupid, idiotic regulations by FEMA. They have turned away generators, we’ve heard that they’ve gone around seizing equipment from our contractors. If they do so, they’d better be armed because I’ll be damned if I’m going to let them deprive our citizens. I’m pissed off, and tired of this horse$#@@." ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/119 "2005-09-05T21:01:14Z")
John Mace is probably right about what the regulations are, he seldom makes a factual error in my opinion. But the problem might have been agencies that were more interested in following regulations and not doing what they weren’t supposed to do rather than getting together to see who was in position to do what. I’d like my FEMA head to get the governor and mayor on a 3 way call and have the conversation be about what needed to be done and who could do it, not what some regulations say should be the case. Maybe the city was technically supposed to provide x but the state was in better position to do it. Maybe y was the state’s responsibility but the feds could do it better. There needs to be cooperation and creativity in such a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/120 "2005-09-05T21:05:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The Feds will not, and more importantly CANNOT, implement an evacuation plan unless they are authorized to do so by the state authorities. Does it say somewhere in that document that the Feds now can just skip that step? Because that is what Leviosaurus claimed in his post that started this discussion, and that is what I am responding to (my emphasis): Once the Governor has declares a state of emergency, the Federal government can move in. The state of emergency was declared the day before the hurricane. Why does everyone keep forgetting this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=7)