# Bush Admin & FEMA start shifting blame to locals - Crass ass covering or justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065 "2005-09-04T17:32:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/161 "2005-09-06T20:39:58Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **Shayna** : > If I think about this in terms of standard project management practices, one should be able to point to the one person who is in charge of the project. Who’s baby is it? It’s not Bush, it’s not the FEMA director, it’s not the LA governor. It’s the highest level person whose **one and only job** during the crisis is to manage the crisis. I can’t for the life of me figure out who that person is, and that might be one of the problems. Out of Bush, the _Federal Emergency Management Agency_ director, and the LA governor, I’m thinking the answer is literally in the middle. Brown’s one and only job is disaster preparedness. Bush has got stuff like wars and Social Security to worry about. Blancko has stuff like education and the state economy on her plate. What does Brown have to worry about besides responding to epic-proportion crises? > [@](#): > > But lets ask ourselves… If we were to design the optimal system, would that “project manager” be a local/state official or a federal federal official? **I can’t see that it would make sense for the person to be federal.** I do. Hurricanes don’t recognize state boundaries. In the case of Katrina, when the local and state governments and infrastructures are swamped with catastrophe, why would we expect the little guys to have the resources to handle the situation better than a federal authority? The feds have more money, more power, more expertise, more awareness of what is happening beyond the state-level, more opportunity to connect the dots, and better access to resources such as helicopters and National Guard units. The state plays an important role when it comes to the prevention of catastrophe, but they are inherently limited in what they can do _after_ the catastrope occurs. What we saw with Katrina was failures on both the prevention and response side of things. FEMA dropped the ball with regards to response. The state dropped the ball wrt prevention. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/162 "2005-09-06T20:57:21Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > She declared a state of emergency. Why didn’t she act upon and implement her own state’s evacuation plans? She was obviously aware of the danger, right? Why are 100 school buses still sitting under 6 feet of water in New Orleans, when they could have been used to move residents to higher ground? I counted over 200 buses in that photo and that wasn’t even the whole busyard. 200 buses x 50 folks = 10,000 people evacuated MINIMUM. That meant that the Feds would have only had to screw up handling 90k MAXIMUM instead of 100k residents. I don’t care what side of the fence you’re on, that was a major fuckup. If you said that it wouldn’t have mattered if it was 90k (or less, depending on the TOTAL number of buses that are actually in the busyard) or 100k, you tell me with a straight face which number of people you would have picked (if you were the President, head of FEMA, National Guard, Governor, Mayor, Grand Poobah) needing rescue, shelter and supplies. Obviously, the overall situation was magnified by the local fuckups multiplied by the fed fuckups. If there were 10k less of people to handle, then the overall situation would have been easier to handle, not the same as others have stated. Again, I go back to the 200+ buses…a WAG estimate of $5M of value to the city’s school system, the fuel inside them that is now leaching into the water adding to the toxicity of the floodwaters, sitting there because of what? Becuase someone didn’t give the order to use them? Who would that be? :dubious: I think you could call that a picture of 10,000 names. It almost would resemble the picture of the inside of the Superdome with 10,000 refugees. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/163 "2005-09-06T20:59:47Z")
I think you guys are missing the point if you still expect the FEMA director to be the crisis management guy. He’s going to be distracted with a million other problems. It has to be someone who can “drop everything” and concentrate only on the crisis at hand. As for making the project manager a federal person… Yes, disasters often affect more than one state, but I don’t think you understand the ramifications of turning over all the state employees to federal control. I doubt that any state would agree to do that. Major ports may in fact affect the whole nation, but they are still owned and operated locally. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/164 "2005-09-07T03:10:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I think you guys are missing the point if you still expect the FEMA director to be the crisis management guy. He’s going to be distracted with a million other problems. It has to be someone who can “drop everything” and concentrate only on the crisis at hand. > > As for making the project manager a federal person… Yes, disasters often affect more than one state, but I don’t think you understand the ramifications of turning over all the state employees to federal control. I doubt that any state would agree to do that. Major ports may in fact affect the whole nation, but they are still owned and operated locally. You mean like [Mike Roark?](http://imdb.com/title/tt0120461/) ::: D & R::: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/165 "2005-09-07T03:28:02Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Again, I go back to the 200+ buses…a WAG estimate of $5M of value to the city’s school system, the fuel inside them that is now leaching into the water adding to the toxicity of the floodwaters, sitting there because of what? Becuase someone didn’t give the order to use them? Who would that be? Now the hurricane is over, houses are under many feet of highly contaminated water, bodies are floating down the streets, and the city is on fire, but [still](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.impact/index.html) people won’t evacuate. \*Many residents have refused to leave New Orleans despite a mandatory evacuation and warnings from government officials that staying in the flooded city represents a health risk. \* This evacuation nonsense is a smokescreen to deflect the criticism off of FEMA. The people who wanted to evacuate but had no transportation were the ones at the Superdome and the Convention Center. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/166 "2005-09-07T05:25:55Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > This evacuation nonsense is a smokescreen to deflect the criticism off of FEMA. The people who wanted to evacuate but had no transportation were the ones at the Superdome and the Convention Center. And do you think that those buses that were in the SAME city could have been used to load the people at the Superdome and take them out of NO before the hurricane hit? Or the convention center? IMHO, this is no smokescreen…somebody on the local level dropped the ball early on. FEMA has it’s own problems to be accountable for. Do you remember after the storm hit that the mayor was [screaming for buses](http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/wireStory?id=1088216) to come and pick up the refugees? > [@](#): > > About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses were growing angry and restless in what appeared to be a potentially explosive situation. In hopes of defusing it, the mayor gave them permission to march across a bridge to the city’s unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. > > In a statement to CNN, he said: “This is a desperate SOS. **Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need buses.** Currently the convention center is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of supplies.” And when pressed for why they weren’t used, his reply was…[“CIA will wipe me out.”](http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7000018155) > [@](#): > > The Mayor has come under serious scrutiny and criticism in the last 72 hours after photos of parking lots filled with school buses that were sitting in a foot of water were released on the Internet. Many critics of the Mayor and Gov. Blanco say the buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit. Leadership was missing on all levels here. The bus issue was one that could have kept 20,000 people from experiencing what Katrina dished out in the first place. Just wondering what the distance was from that busyard to the Superdome…maybe 5 or 10 miles at most? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/167 "2005-09-07T05:44:56Z")
**FEMA Chief Sent Help Only When Storm Ended** [http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050907/ap\_on\_go\_ca\_st\_pe/katrina\_disaster\_response](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050907/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_disaster_response) > [@](#): > > The government’s disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 > Homeland Security workers to support rescuers in the region — and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents. > > Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to"convey a positive image" about the government’s response for victims… Offered without comment. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/168 "2005-09-07T05:56:37Z")
**Yeticus** , while I admire your efforts at reason, many here will have none of it because it fails to support their preformed conclusion that Mr. Bush is responsible for all that is wrong with the universe. The notion that a distribution of fault isn’t good enough, because when the tar kettle is hot and chickens have been plucked, the mob must have their scapegoat. Why investigate when they have the guilty party identified? ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/169 "2005-09-07T06:43:24Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > Two more gems Bubba, here’s an idea. Those are active duty, federal troops. It is illegal under the 1868 Posse Comitatus act for them to be used. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/170 "2005-09-07T07:11:00Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > **Yeticus** , while I admire your efforts at reason, many here will have none of it because it fails to support their preformed conclusion that Mr. Bush is responsible for all that is wrong with the universe. The notion that a distribution of fault isn’t good enough, because when the tar kettle is hot and chickens have been plucked, the mob must have their scapegoat. Why investigate when they have the guilty party identified? As many posters have pointed out, there’s more than enough blame to go around. _Every_ level of government failed to a degree. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/171 "2005-09-07T10:33:46Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > As many posters have pointed out, there’s more than enough blame to go around. _Every_ level of government failed to a degree. don’t bother pointing out the obvious. The only defense they have for the abysmal ‘performance’ of the administration is this sort of hand waving straw man. god forbid the administration be held accountable for it’s actions/inactions. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/172 "2005-09-07T15:53:08Z")
MY GOD! I’M LOSING MY MIND!!! [http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci\_3004197](http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197) This can’t be real!!! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/173 "2005-09-07T15:59:25Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > MY GOD! > I’M LOSING MY MIND!!! Some of our ISPs are still having routing problems, so can you summarize? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/174 "2005-09-07T16:12:31Z")
Summary: Firefighters show up to help, are instead forced to sit in day-long classes to train them to be “community relations officers” for FEMA. “Governments at all levels failed,”: Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/175 "2005-09-07T16:17:18Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > Summary: Firefighters show up to help, are instead forced to sit in day-long classes to train them to be “community relations officers” for FEMA. > > “Governments at all levels failed,”: Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) Yup. He’s actually trying to destroy America. WHAT ELSE COULD IT **BE**?!? :eek: :eek: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/176 "2005-09-07T16:34:47Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > Summary: Firefighters show up to help, are instead forced to sit in day-long classes to train them to be “community relations officers” for FEMA. > > “Governments at all levels failed,”: Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) See additional discussion in this thread: [FEMA’s use of skilled volunteers? Leafleteers and Bush Props.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=333727) ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/177 "2005-09-07T16:51:07Z")
This blog does a very good job of explaining the National Response Plan, how and when it gets invoked, and whose responsibility things moving forward from that point is: > **[National Response Plan: THE BUCK STOPS HERE. \[updated #2\]](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/9/5/145792/-)** > > Below, I've excerpted critical parts of the United States National Response Plan, as published in December 2004.   > Reading through it, it becomes abundantly clear that we have witnessed what will ... (_hint_ It’s not the state and local governments) ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/178 "2005-09-07T16:58:14Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > This is very justified. Bush declared LA to be in a state of emergency last Saturday. That’s two days before Katrina hit. That’s when Blanco and Nagin snapped into action and did…absolutely nothing. Blanco did not mobilize the National Guard, she did not order Nagin to commandeer every school bus available and begin enforcing the mandatory evacuation order. They did not implement any of the evacuation plans already in place. > > A picture speaks a thousand words and this photo may very well become the defining image of this tragedy: [http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015) > > Let’s also remember that New Orleans residents have known for decades that that levee was built to withstand a hurricane up to a Cat. 3. Did it ever occur to any of the LA governors over the past years that maybe something should be done about that? I realize that Louisiana politicians are as corrupt as they come, but please…it’s not like this scenario wasn’t anticipated by anyone. > > When all this settles, I believe the finger of blame will point directly at Blanco and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Mayor Nagin. I have seen this reported a whole bunch of times, but it simply isn’t true. According to this [letter](http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf) sent from Blanco to Bush on the 28 she clearly states that an emergency was declared on the 26th which was Friday. This is a day prior to all of the Right wing nut jobs on the radio saying she didn’t so anything until Bush asked her. She even had a clean-up budget, for crying out loud. Granted, she didn’t anticipate the levees breaking, but it’s not like she sat on her hands. I sick of this fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/179 "2005-09-07T17:03:25Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > I have seen this reported a whole bunch of times, but it simply isn’t true. According to this [letter](http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf) sent from Blanco to Bush on the 28 she clearly states that an emergency was declared on the 26th which was Friday. This is a day prior to all of the Right wing nut jobs on the radio saying she didn’t so anything until Bush asked her. She even had a clean-up budget, for crying out loud. Granted, she didn’t anticipate the levees breaking, but it’s not like she sat on her hands. > > I sick of this fallacy. OK, even better. She had three (or two-and-a-half) full days to implement her own evacuation plan. She didn’t do it. Nagin had over 200 school buses right there to begin moving people who had no other means of transportation to higher ground. He didn’t do it. Do you really think it’s a “fallacy” that hundreds of school buses went unused in the days leading up to this disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065/180 "2005-09-07T17:06:21Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The notion that a distribution of fault isn’t good enough, Is it fun being a liar? Almost no one here is supporting the position that the state and local officials screwed up. No one is harping on that because a) it’s uncontroversial at this point and b) they are certain to be held responsible. But then there’s people like you. Who’s sole purpose seems to be to make sure that the federal response was faultless. And people like you are precisely the reason others get so worked up about pointing out that it was not. Because people like you will offer apologetics while the country burns, and nothing will ever get done to address the problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-fema-start-shifting-blame-to-locals-crass-ass-covering-or-justified/320065.md?page=10)