# Bush Admin planning post-Labor-Day "product rollout" of war-with-Iran hysteria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520 "2007-08-30T17:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/221 "2007-09-25T19:17:45Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I wish the Daily News were obscure! [/QUOTE] Well, your wish is granted. It IS obscure, in the same way the National Inquirer is obscure…as a NEWS source. If the great Republican Propaganda Machine™ were going to roll out a new propaganda program I don’t think this obscure paper would be where they would start. One has but to look back on an ACTUAL propaganda push this administration has used…namely the run up to the Iraqi war. In that main stream news organs were used…cable/TV, radio, news print, internet. Give up already on this BG…it ain’t happening. -XT ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/222 "2007-09-25T21:09:11Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] If the great Republican Propaganda Machine™ were going to roll out a new propaganda program I don’t think this obscure paper would be where they would start. One has but to look back on an ACTUAL propaganda push this administration has used…namely the run up to the Iraqi war. In that main stream news organs were used…cable/TV, radio, news print, internet. [/QUOTE] **Ravenman** pointed out that the paper in question did, in fact, participate quite enthusiastically in the last propaganda push toward war. And they didn’t “start” there. > [@Mahmoud Ahmadinejad](#): > > If I may. Are you an American politician? Am I to look at you as an American politician or a reporter? -[Ahmadinejad on the obscure TV news show 60 Minutes](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/20/60minutes/main3282230.shtml) Sunday night. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/223 "2007-09-25T21:19:59Z")
He pointed out a few other things as well…perhaps you should go back and read them carefully, ehe? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/224 "2007-09-25T21:33:32Z")
The Daily News has probably endorsed six of the last two wars that didn’t in some way involve Bill Clinton. The fact that they throw around course language with respect to a Muslim country should come about as much of a surprise as Rush Limbaugh liking donuts. Just because Rush eats another donut doesn’t mean Krispy Kreme should make plans to expand. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/225 "2007-09-25T22:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica] Hand-waving dismissals, [/quote] Also known by the more accurate term of: logical analysis > [@](#): > > accusations of conspiracy theory, The OP is a conspiracy theory. If it isn’t show us the evidence!! > [@](#): > > anti-Clinton rhetoric Posing a hypothetical. Nothing anti-anybody about it. Put in “President X” if it makes you feel better. > [@](#): > > raising the dreaded specter of extreme leftism–all right on cue. Uhm… where? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/226 "2007-09-25T23:38:34Z")
And the beat goes on…Pub’s or Dem’s: [**US House votes to tighten Iran nuclear sanctions**](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiAuEr6DaumEXCldgqkOl51dLS5A) [**Turning Ahmadinejad into public enemy No. 1**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18453.htm) [**U.S. says Iran sending missiles to Iraq**](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070923/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq) [**Why the US granted ‘protected’ status to Iranian terrorists**](http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p07s01-wome.html) Yep. Just another tinfoil-hat wearing PSOE supporter whose seeing the rateching-up of the campaign mentioned in the OP. Remember, Rome wasn’t built in a week and neither was the Iraq debacle. – Oh, and just to brighten **xt’s** ever-enduring anti-Spain Crusade/Jihad day: [**Two Spanish soldiers killed in Afghanistan: defence ministry**](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070924/wl_sthasia_afp/afghanistanunrestspainmilitary;_ylt=A0WTcVc2kfdGDTYAFgpvaA8F) * * * Just another paranoid lefty that thinks the US has sunk to levels never even imagined before. “The Good Guys”? Would that I could laugh in the face of unprovoked mass-murder… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/227 "2007-09-25T23:53:05Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] And the beat goes on…Pub’s or Dem’s: [**US House votes to tighten Iran nuclear sanctions**](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiAuEr6DaumEXCldgqkOl51dLS5A) [/quote] Yes, Dems. They control Congress. So, this isn’t Bush. > [@](#): > > [**Turning Ahmadinejad into public enemy No. 1**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18453.htm) An opinion piece simply repeating the stuff in the OP. > [@](#): > > [**U.S. says Iran sending missiles to Iraq**](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070923/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq) Same ol’ shit they’ve been saying for years. This is a ramp up of propaganda? I didn’t realize what amateurs these guys were… Oh, and this is Yahoo News, not part of the right wing media machine posited by the OP. > [@](#): > > [**Why the US granted ‘protected’ status to Iranian terrorists**](http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p07s01-wome.html) Tried twice, but couldn’t get this link to work. > [@](#): > > Yep. Just another tinfoil-hat wearing PSOE supporter whose seeing the rateching-up of the campaign mentioned in the OP. I don’t know what PSOE stands for, but one news article posted on Yahoo is not what the OP promised. There is, of course, going to be a furry of news stories and administrations statements about Iran since their president is visiting this country lately. Did Bush orchestrate that visit he could ratchet-up the rhetoric? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/228 "2007-09-25T23:57:48Z")
PS-That should be **ratcheting** -up. Wouldn’t want an sp to dismiss the thrust of my message. You’all have a lovely evening and be thankful that your soldiers are not taking care of you and your family in Iraq. LA Times: Poll: [**Civilian Death Toll in Iraq May Top 1 Million**](http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/14/3839/) Genocide? No way, no how. Remember it’s the Mighty US of A that sparked this horrific meat-grinder. And, as we all know, the US of A can never be wrong. Just not an option for the world’s most powerful nation. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/229 "2007-09-26T00:31:58Z")
The CS article won’t come-up for me either, John (?). But here’s the cached page so can hand-wave it away as all else that’s posted that differs from your political views. Par for the course. [**Why the US granted ‘protected’ status to Iranian terrorists**](http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Lrf7CUA-UdsJ:www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p07s01-wome.html+Why+the+US+granted+%27protected%27+status+to+Iranian+terrorists&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1) And one more, confirming it from the BBC: [**US ‘protects’ Iran rebels in Iraq**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3928499.stm) > [@](#): > > \*\*The US has granted “protected status” under the Geneva Conventions to 3,800 members of an Iranian opposition group interned in Iraq. \*\* US? Bush? Geneva Convention? Bwaahaha! Shit, this kind of made-for-drones press releases reminds me of when SNL was _good._ You know, for rather intelligent viewers. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/230 "2007-09-26T00:41:20Z")
PS-[**PSOE**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers'_Party). Not your cup of tea, I’m fairly sure. Yet that’s the prism I look through for a better tomorrow for future generations. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/231 "2007-09-26T00:56:34Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] The CS article won’t come-up for me either, John (?). But here’s the cached page so can hand-wave it away as all else that’s posted that differs from your political views. Par for the course. [**Why the US granted ‘protected’ status to Iranian terrorists**](http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Lrf7CUA-UdsJ:www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p07s01-wome.html+Why+the+US+granted+%27protected%27+status+to+Iranian+terrorists&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1) And one more, confirming it from the BBC: [**US ‘protects’ Iran rebels in Iraq**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3928499.stm) [/QUOTE] Why are you citing a story from 2004 as evidence of a 2007 propaganda campaign? By that measure, I can say that crazy Iranians are now storming our embassy, and action MUST be taken!!! [Cite.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/4/newsid_3910000/3910627.stm) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/232 "2007-09-26T00:57:37Z")
Warning, as **'luc** would say, definite pinko-commie site ahead. Shields-up but try and read the content without knocking your teeth out: [**Who is the MEK? Why are they protected in Iraq?**](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/22/12746/3735) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/233 "2007-09-26T03:19:53Z")
I for one am glad that the Daily News gave Ahmadinejad a well-deserved jab in the eye. But no, I really don’t see it as a larger propaganda offense, except insofar as the panic-lobby is opportunistic. > [@vibrotronica](#): > > If Bush gets the idea to bomb them, he’s going to bomb them and nothing they do is going to change that. How do I know? That’s what he did the last time. There’s no reason to expect him to act any different this time, especially since his naked aggression toward Iraq ultimately got him reelected. I’ve documented that Bush has got it in his head to bomb Iran (whether he has made it a decision to do that is another matter). So you seem to be arguing that an Israeli or US bombing of Iran is probable. If this is the case, you can make big money at [Intrade](https://www.intrade.com/aav2/trading/tradingHTML.jsp?evID=37985&eventSelect=37985&updateList=true&showExpired=false) which puts the odds of action at about 25% (up from 20%!). It peaked at 28%, following Cheney’s [sabre-rattling leaks](http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2323126720070923?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews) last Sunday. I salute **Brainglutton** for having the insight, caution and good sense to start this thread: while the market thinks that invasion probably will not occur, I think it’s fair to say that there’s been a pronounced shift in the media environment since then. Remember, Cheney is playing to the Joint Chiefs, rather than the American public at the moment, as documented irrefutably earlier. LOL. Rhetoric aside, I think the Cheney story constitutes _bona fide_ sabre-rattling, but the public propaganda offensive has yet to materialize. Then again, we’d expect that, since the admin wasn’t going to interfere with the Petreus’ PR testimony. > [@xtisme](#): > > I hope you are holding your breath. It will be amusing to see you turn blue and then gasp and splutter when Bush’s term ends and nothing happens. The Intrade data indicates a 25% chance of falling bombs. So it probably won’t happen. But those who are _sure_ that it won’t happen – those who use phrases like “Conspiracy theory” for example – can make a nice pile of loot at Inttrade by betting against military action. As a reality check, the odds of military action against North Korea are down to 4% – so it’s fair to label that hypothetical adventure as a conspiracy theory in my view. * * * Props to **Ravenman** for his musings earlier this month on the reliability of Inttrade. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/234 "2007-09-26T04:13:53Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] But those who are _sure_ that it won’t happen – those who use phrases like “Conspiracy theory” for example – can make a nice pile of loot at Inttrade by betting against military action. [/QUOTE] Well, let’s be careful to define what “it” is. I don’t know anyone who says it’s improbable that a few bombs will be lobbed. I for one think it would be a terrible thing to do, but I see it as a possibility. But the article linked in the OP defines “it” as “war with Iran”. No way. There is not going to be a war, which would consist of a ground invasion and occupation. So let’s stop talk past each other with vague pronouncements like “it”. Tell us what “it” is, and let’s debate the details of that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/235 "2007-09-26T04:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Well, let’s be careful to define what “it” is. I don’t know anyone who says it’s improbable that a few bombs will be lobbed. [/QUOTE] Eh? Intrade seems to be saying exactly that. I assumed **you** were saying exactly that. And in this situation, remember, there’s practically no way just a **few** bombs can be lobbed. Once it starts . . . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/236 "2007-09-26T04:41:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] … There is not going to be a war, which would consist of a ground invasion and occupation… [/QUOTE] Sez who? Just as a for instance, blockade is considered an act of war, and does not involve a ground invasion or occupation. A premptive thermonuclear strike would be a very _sincere_ act of war, and wouldn’t leave anthing worth invading or occupying. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/237 "2007-09-26T04:44:11Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Well, let’s be careful to define what “it” is. I don’t know anyone who says it’s improbable that a few bombs will be lobbed. I for one think it would be a terrible thing to do, but I see it as a possibility. [/QUOTE] ::Blink:: Ok, I thought that you _were_ saying that the idea of a US bombing was ludicrous. The effects of lobbing a few bombs would be catastrophic according to _my_ reading of [the 2004 wargame conducted by the Atlantic Magazine and referenced in the OP](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows). Let’s back up a little. From [the Atlantic article](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows/6), “A full-scale “regime change” operation has both obvious and hidden risks. The obvious ones are that the United States lacks enough manpower and equipment to take on Iran while still tied down in Iraq, and that domestic and international objections would be enormous.” A full scale invasion before March 2008 is highly unlikely for logistical reasons alone: we don’t even have to discuss politics. What about bombing? Same page: > [@The Atlantic](#): > > What about a pre-emptive strike of our own, like the Osirak raid? The problem is that Iran’s nuclear program is now much more advanced than Iraq’s was at the time of the raid. Already the U.S. government has no way of knowing exactly how many sites Iran has, or how many it would be able to destroy, or how much time it would buy in doing so. Worse, it would have no way of predicting the long-term strategic impact of such a strike. A strike might delay by three years Iran’s attainment of its goal—but at the cost of further embittering the regime and its people. Iran’s intentions when it did get the bomb would be all the more hostile. > > …So this is how the war game turned out: with a finding that the next American President must, through bluff and patience, change the actions of a government whose motives he does not understand well, and over which his influence is limited. “After all this effort, I am left with two simple sentences for policymakers,” Sam Gardiner said of his exercise. “You have no military solution for the issues of Iran. And you have to make diplomacy work.” Sam Gardiner is a retired General who made his living conducting such war simulations for the Pentagon. So, yes, when the odds of Iranian bomb-lobbing within the next ~6 months top 20%, I find it highly disturbing – and Great Debateworthy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/238 "2007-09-26T12:40:00Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] ::Blink:: Ok, I thought that you _were_ saying that the idea of a US bombing was ludicrous. [/QUOTE] Can you quote the post where I said that? Was it in post #17 where I said: > [@John Mace](#): > > Look, I’ve said all along that it wouldn’t surprise me if Bush dropped a few bombs on Iran at some point. Or was it post #69 where I said (in reference to my thoughts on said dropping of bombs): > [@John Mace](#): > > Well, you’ll notice that I have explicitly stated that I don’t think it would be at all wise to bomb Iran, so it should be pretty obvious that I don’t want to find out. Whether or not we agree on what the consequences would be, it seems to me the more important matter is that we do agree on what the US should do-- ie, we should not bomb Iran. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/239 "2007-09-26T15:44:39Z")
So, “just” dropping a few bombs isn’t actually war? If Iran “just dropped a few bombs” on us, what would that be? I guess it depends on what “is” is, doesn’t it? Oh wait! I can hear the refrain now! “But Clinton did it…” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/240 "2007-09-26T15:52:12Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Just as a for instance, blockade is considered an act of war . . . [/QUOTE] **Blockade** a major petroleum exporter?! Not to be thought of. Not unless it’s ameliorated with some sort of “oil for food” program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520.md?page=13)