# Bush Admin planning post-Labor-Day "product rollout" of war-with-Iran hysteria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520 "2007-08-30T17:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/141 "2007-09-05T19:45:00Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] You’re confusing “willful blindness on your part” with “lack of coverage”. [/QUOTE] Um…right. Here is a hint though…if you have to search that deep to confirm your supposed propaganda blitz, its probably not working very well. I’m not sure what you thought you were proving there…but to me it proves pretty much that the whole thing is lame. Hell, the Kennedy conspiricy is more intersting. Carry on though. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/142 "2007-09-05T20:28:16Z")
It failed, therefore it didn’t happen? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/143 "2007-09-05T20:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] I’m kind of at a loss for words when liberals brush off a fucking war with fucking Iran at this fucked up time as not being sufficient for impeachment and conviction. [/QUOTE] Hey, don’t look at me. I’m the one who thinks we should impeach Bush and Cheney because a one-in-five chance of an unprovoked attack on Iran is too big a risk for our country to take. Like people keep saying, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/144 "2007-09-05T20:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] Besides, imagine what sort of precedent that would set – impeachment for starting wars? [/QUOTE] How about, impeachment for separating a petulant child and a crazy old man from the world’s most potent arsenal? I’m all for getting us through the current crisis in one piece, then worrying about what future Congresses will do with the precedent. Besides, we already have a bad precedent that’s not even nine years old. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/145 "2007-09-05T21:26:24Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] I don’t agree. I think “such” is used to refer to the specific definition provided. It wouldn’t make much sense to define the targeted group (ie, that had a hand in 9-11) and then in the following two clauses throw the door wide open based solely on an equivocation of the word “such.” If you look at the preamble, the word “such” is used there, too, and I think the line about “such acts render it necessary” for the US to defend itself is clearly a reference to the specific acts on 9-11, and would not be an implied reference to, say, the Oklahoma City bombing, similar as it may be in a certain sense. Therefore, I think the word “such” is used in a consistent manner throughout the resolution, as a reference to incidents or groups previously defined, as opposed to meaning “or any similar thing.” [/quote] I don’t agree with your not agreeing. 🙂 Since the AUMF is also to prevent future attacks, it makes no sense to say it’s OK to use force against that group (or those groups) who attacked us on 9/11/01, but if there is another group about to attack us just go ahead and let them. But let me ask you this: Whose interpretation do you think Bush would side with, and isn’t that what really matters in this hypothetical discussion? And let’s remember that, after all, we both agree that Iran is not a threat to the US (at least not now) and that Congress would not stand for an invasion of that country per the Iraq invasion. > [@](#): > > Whoops! No worries. I’ve been called much worse here. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/146 "2007-09-05T21:33:40Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Um…right. Here is a hint though…if you have to search that deep to confirm your supposed propaganda blitz, its probably not working very well. I’m not sure what you thought you were proving there…but to me it proves pretty much that the whole thing is lame. Hell, the Kennedy conspiricy is more intersting. Carry on though. -XT [/QUOTE] I went to Google News and typed “Iran”. They were all on the first page. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/147 "2007-09-05T21:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Mein Gott! Iran is in the news! It must mean war!! Seriously, this is nothing but confirmation bias. Don’t pretend that Iran wasn’t in the news before Labor Day. The fact that Iran continues to be in the news, really isn’t news. [/QUOTE] Actually Google News shows a lot of promising news out of Iran. They freed a captured reporter, a moderate was elected to a key government post, and they are planning on building a national center for human rights and cultural diversity. Which makes the DEFCON 3 stuff in the articles I linked to before all the more confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/148 "2007-09-05T21:39:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Since the AUMF is also to prevent future attacks, it makes no sense to say it’s OK to use force against that group (or those groups) who attacked us on 9/11/01, but if there is another group about to attack us just go ahead and let them. But let me ask you this: Whose interpretation do you think Bush would side with, and isn’t that what really matters in this hypothetical discussion? [/QUOTE] If anyone – Al Qaeda, Mexico, the Pope, little green men from the moon – were on the verge of attacking us, no president would need authorization from Congress to take action to stop the attack. What the AUMF does is allow the president to go out and attack those who are somehow linked to the 9/11 attacks so that they are incapable of attacking the US. It’s like the difference between preemptive and preventative war: the former need not be authorized by Congress before the President acts, the latter is within Congress’ war powers. And as far as whose opinion matters, I think what counts more is what the law really says. One could ask, whose opinion really matters on issues of torture, wiretapping, and anything else? If we answer only the President’s opinion really matters, then we’re no longer a nation of laws. I’m not willing to concede that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/149 "2007-09-05T21:44:48Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] It failed, therefore it didn’t happen? [/QUOTE] Well, you know, they didn’t really try very hard this time compared to their efforts with Iraq. Kind of a disappointment… -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/150 "2007-09-05T22:04:47Z")
Thinking about it, that could be the answer to both our viewpoints. The Bushiviks may be more interested in building excuses for the “difficulties” in Iraq. Interference from Iran would be just one point in the propaganda effort, along with blaming the GAO for being too strict and unfair in their terms. And shifting the emphasis from the failure of the national government to the wonderful, marvelous, simply terrific progress in Anbar. If they had struck a chord with that sabre-rattling speech…if it had garnered a lot of attention and support…they might very well have carried it further. As it happens, it landed with a dull “thud!”. So, yeah, it could be a candy mint, but its still a breath mint. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/151 "2007-09-05T22:11:09Z")
Like I said to \*\*BG \*\*earlier, this is all self-fulfilling prophecy. If Bush invades Iran, that proves he was right. If Bush doesn’t, then it proves the propaganda campaign was a failure. Nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/152 "2007-09-05T22:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Like I said to \*\*BG \*\*earlier, this is all self-fulfilling prophecy. If Bush invades Iran, that proves he was right. If Bush doesn’t, then it proves the propaganda campaign was a failure. Nonsense. [/QUOTE] What is being prophesied is not the propaganda campaign’s success, but its existence. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/153 "2007-09-06T05:25:54Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] So…not much of a roll out thus far. How long till the thing starts picking up enough steam to actually, you know, get on the radar of the non-faithful? [/QUOTE] If the Ackerman article is correct, we’re at the inside-the-beltway stage now. Look, there will be no fireworks over the next couple of weeks, since Petraeus has to flog his cooked surged figures. Again, the Joint Chiefs are the main audience for the Iran push; the rest of us have to make do with stories about Potemkin villages and wide stances. I’ll note that all sources, including BrainGlutton, characterized this anonymous report from a conservative think tank with circumspection and restraint. Which was appropriate. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Confirmation bias Could be. Or “Noisy data”: it might be tricky to definitively ID this. But I still think that it’s worth discussing. And my underlying point remains: with this administration, we can’t rule out the possibility of a boneheaded “Surgical strike” against Iranian assets, an action which would be a disaster for US national interests. Intrade (…22%!) provides but one piece of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/154 "2007-09-06T05:37:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What is being prophesied is not the propaganda campaign’s success, but its existence. [/QUOTE] No. What is being prophesied is an invasion of Iran, prefaced by a “propaganda” campaign. If there is no invasion, I don’t want to hear any nonsense along the lines of: Well, there wasn’t an invasion because the propaganda campaign didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/155 "2007-09-06T12:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No. What is being prophesied is an invasion of Iran, prefaced by a “propaganda” campaign. [/QUOTE] Wrong. Read the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/156 "2007-09-06T13:07:52Z")
[**Phase III of Bush’s War**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18317.htm) > [@Pat Buchanan](#): > > …Those who hoped that — with the victory of the antiwar party in 2006, the departure of Rumsfeld and the neocons from the Pentagon, the rise of Condi and the eclipse of Cheney — America was headed out of Iraq got a rude awakening. They are about to get another. > > Today, the United States has 30,000 more troops in Iraq than on the day America repudiated the Bush war policy and voted the GOP out of power. And President Bush, self-confidence surging, is now employing against Iran a bellicosity redolent of the days just prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom. > > What gives Bush his new cockiness? The total collapse of the antiwar coalition on Capitol Hill and the breaking of the Congress. > > Last spring, Bush vetoed the congressional deadlines for troop withdrawals, then rubbed Congress’ nose in its defeat by demanding and getting $100 billion to support the surge and continue the war. > > Before the August recess, Democrats broke again and voted to give Bush the warrantless wiretap authority many among them had said was an unconstitutional and impeachable usurpation of power. They are a broken and frightened lot. > > \ > > Fifty-four percent of the nation believes, contra Harry Reid, the war is not lost. That is twice the support that Bush enjoys for his war leadership, a paltry 27 percent. But, by nine to one, Bush’s leadership on the war is preferred to that of the Congress of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. > > Incredibly, only 3 percent of the nation gives Congress a positive rating on its handling of the war. Congress has lost the hawks, and the owls, and the doves. No one trusts its leadership on the war. > > And George W. smells it. He no longer fears the power of Congress, and his rhetoric suggests he is contemptuous of it. He is brimming with self-assurance that he can break any Democratic attempt to impose deadlines for troop withdrawal and force Congress to cough up all the funds he demands. > > Confident of victory this fall on the Hill, Bush is now moving into Phase III in his War on Terror: First, Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Iran. > > \*\*Do not take this writer’s word for it. Hearken to the astonishing rhetoric Bush used at the American Legion Convention in Las Vegas against Tehran: > > "Iran … is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism. … Iran funds terrorist groups like Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which murder the innocent and target Israel. … Iran is sending arms to the Taliban. … Iran has arrested visiting American scholars who have committed no crimes. … Iran’s active pursuit of technology that could lead to nuclear weapons threatens to put a region already known for instability and violence under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust. > > “Iran’s actions threaten the security of nations everywhere. … We will confront this danger before it is too late.” > > Bush has repeatedly warned Iran to cease supplying Iraqi insurgents with arms and enhanced IEDs for attacks on our troops in Iraq. > > How has Tehran responded to Bush’s virtual ultimatums? > > "The attacks on our bases and our troops by Iranian-supplied munitions have increased in the last few months — despite pledges by Iran to help stabilize the security situation in Iraq. … > > “Iran’s leaders cannot escape responsibility for aiding attacks against coalition forces and the murder of innocent Iraqis.” > > This is a case for war. Indeed, it’s an assertion by President Bush that Iran is colluding in acts of war against the soldiers and Marines and allies of the United States. What does he intend to do? > > “I have authorized our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities. … We’ve conducted operations against Iranian agents supplying lethal munitions to extremist groups.” > > This suggests that U.S. forces may already be engaged in combat operations against Iranians.\*\* > > Who or what can stop this drive to war? Highlights mine. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/157 "2007-09-06T13:41:21Z")
[**GEARING UP FOR A NEW WAR IN IRAN**](http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/gallagher330.html) [**Middle East Madness**](http://rinf.com/alt-news/contributions/middle-east-madness/1183/) [**US is walking on a war line**](http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/09/04/10151175.html) [**Tick, Tock …Michael Ledeen on The Iranian Time Bomb**.](http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2Y5YzI1YmM4ZDhkMWQxNzg4MDVjZDdjM2VhNDhhMTA=) [**US more eager than Europe for military strikes on Iran: survey**](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iS65Io6qg9K7QufKRagXElr9n9gA) [**Iran: It’s about time**](http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070906/COMMENTARY/109060017) Yeah, I’ll say someone’s not looking. Plus remember, Sept’s just started and you have that bit of spin (AKA the Petraeus Report) to deal with first. But to say that the belligerent rhetoric hasn’t increased…is to close ones eyes to same. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/158 "2007-09-06T15:22:29Z")
Well, if a former city councilman for Niagara Falls thinks we’re on the path for war with Iran, it MUST be true! How could I have been so foolish? Seriously, half of your news stories are written by those opposing or taking no position on war with Iran. It’s silly to say that those stories are examples of belligerent rhetoric, because they are advocating the exact opposite of what you’re implying they are. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/159 "2007-09-06T16:42:03Z")
I know I’ve given up the excessive use of smilies but…Pat Buchanan?!? :rolleyes: -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520/160 "2007-09-06T16:49:32Z")
Missed this: [QUOTE=Measure for Measure] If the Ackerman article is correct, we’re at the inside-the-beltway stage now. [/QUOTE] If thats all the further its gone so far, how can they have a hope in hell of rolling this thing out before, you know, GW is history? I mean, really guys… [QUOTE=Measure for Measure] Look, there will be no fireworks over the next couple of weeks, since Petraeus has to flog his cooked surged figures. Again, the Joint Chiefs are the main audience for the Iran push; the rest of us have to make do with stories about Potemkin villages and wide stances. [/QUOTE] I’m missing something here. I thought we were talking about Iran. Regardless of if Petraeus ‘cooked’ figures are good or bad…well, what difference does it make? Its not going to magically give us fresh troops or logistical supplies in theater. If we are talking invasion then it makes no difference, unless you think anyone is so divorced from reality that they think we can simply redirect our armies in Iraq into Iran. I assure you, the Joint Chiefs AREN’T that divorced from reality. If we are talking air strikes then again it makes no difference what Petraeus’s report says as we STILL won’t be using our armies in Iraq…it will be the fleet. Well, what the hell…lets give it until the end of September, ehe? Then when no phantom rollout of propaganda occurs we can give it until December, just to be safe. When nothing happens by then, we can see what Feb. and March look like. Nada? Well, there is always the spring…hope and all that. Perhaps they will have got things beyond the beltway by…how is July of next year looking? -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-admin-planning-post-labor-day-product-rollout-of-war-with-iran-hysteria/417520.md?page=9)