# Bush Administration caught revealing spy's indentity to smear him over Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462 "2003-09-29T13:08:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/41 "2003-10-01T12:38:34Z")
It’s not unexpected that Novak would try to softball his report, once he realized how badly he screwed his team. Surely we’ve all heard the stories of the premium the Bush family puts on loyalty. Hey kids, time for a game! Try and spot where Novak attempts to discredit Wilson even further! (Hint: it’s more than once.) ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/42 "2003-10-01T13:34:49Z")
"Because it isn’t a crime to disclose information that you don’t have a security clearence to have in the first place. " So, if in a drunken, cocaine-induced stupor at a strip bar, George Bush told me something highly classifeid, ultra-top secret, hush hush, for his eyes only, and I then turned to Osama Bin-Laden, who is sitting next to me and stuffing $100 bills into the g-string of the stripper, I’m not guilty of violating the law? Is this a great country, or what? ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/43 "2003-10-01T13:36:07Z")
Assuming, of course, that I then relayed the secret information to Mr. Bin-Laden in the scenario above. I may have forgotten to in my own drunken, cocaine-induced stupor. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/44 "2003-10-01T14:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \* > \*\*Because it isn’t a crime to disclose information that you don’t have a security clearence to have in the first place. > > To commit a crime you have to have legitimate access, and disclose deliberately. So the criminal here was the person in the White House who had clearance, and told someone who didn’t have clearence. > > Novak clearly doesn’t have clearence. The person who he talked to may or may not have, but somewhere along the chain of communication, there was an illegal act. > > And, given how few have access to secrets, the criminal is almost certainly a high official, or even Bush himself. > > What I want to know is - Does Rove even have clearence? \*\* Umm, no. There is an exception for journalists. > [@](#): > > Could the leaker go to jail? What does the law actually say? > > Section 421 of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 reads as follows: > > “Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.” > > Is Novak criminally liable? > > No. The law says no person other than the one accused of leaking the information can be prosecuted, a provision that would protect journalists who report leaked classified information identifying a covert agent. The only exception is a journalist who make a practice of exposing undercover CIA operatives. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24144-2003Sep30.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24144-2003Sep30.html) ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/45 "2003-10-01T15:44:55Z")
Here is a link with a summary of many stories on this issues and why it will continue to be a leading story for a while, despite the frevent hope of some: > [@](#): > > Wilsongate is not Watergate. But at the moment, if you’re breathing the autumnal air inside the Beltway, it sure feels like it. > > The mystery of who in the Bush administration outed Joe Wilson’s wife as a CIA operative has the White House in full damage control mode, the Democrats in full outrage mode and the press in full investigative mode (at least those reporters who didn’t get the potentially illegal leaks). > > The president took the high road before the cameras, praising the Justice investigation as “a good thing” (really?) while his counsel warned staffers not to destroy documents or e-mail. Tom Daschle was out demanding a probe by an independent prosecutor, not John Ashcroft. Republican chief Ed Gillespie was hitting Wilson as a “pretty partisan Democrat.” Bill Kristol said the leaker should resign soon because he’ll probably be fingered. Former ambassador Wilson was all over the tube, from Charlie Gibson and Paula Zahn and Keith Olbermann Monday night to Ted Koppel and Alan Murray and Gloria Borger last night. The detective story is at the top of every newscast and talk show, and the press is vacuuming up every detail. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27207-2003Oct1.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27207-2003Oct1.html) Stuff is there for everyone. Enjoy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/46 "2003-10-01T15:50:51Z")
I’m confused. If Wilson’s wife is indeed a covert agent for the CIA and someone outed her in such a non-concrete way, why wouldn’t the CIA just deny it. Why go to the press and confirm the information? Wouldn’t that put her in more danger? Also, could someone explain to me why having a spouse who’s a covert CIA operative, or even an analyst, could be a discredit to Wilson? I would think that his having potential access to more information about Iraq would make him more credible. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/47 "2003-10-01T17:57:07Z")
**mornea** , the leak was more retribution than an attempt to discredit, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/48 "2003-10-01T18:18:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > **So, if in a drunken, cocaine-induced stupor at a strip bar, George Bush told me something highly classifeid, ultra-top secret, hush hush, for his eyes only, and I then turned to Osama Bin-Laden, who is sitting next to me and stuffing $100 bills into the g-string of the stripper, I’m not guilty of violating the law?** You wouldn’t be guilty of violating THAT law. You could certainly be tried for treason. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/49 "2003-10-01T20:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mornea \* > \*\*I’m confused. > > If Wilson’s wife is indeed a covert agent for the CIA and someone outed her in such a non-concrete way, why wouldn’t the CIA just deny it. Why go to the press and confirm the information? Wouldn’t that put her in more danger?..\*\* That is a bit odd. “Hello, CIA? Is 345B324GX the secret launch code?” “No.” “Hello, CIA? It’s me again. Is 45323HF3F the secret launch code?” “No” “Hello, CIA? Ya, it’s me. Hey, is 55432DE the secret launch code?” “Yes. Please don’t tell anyone!” Back in the good ol’ days, a ‘no comment’ is what Mr.Novak would have gotten. Oh how the mighty have become incompetent… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/50 "2003-10-01T20:19:57Z")
I could be wrong, but my guess is that a denial is useless – an agent depends on not being the focus of sustained attention in order to be able to do their work. Imagine, for example, that her work depends on people trusting her and not suspecting her of beng an agent. Suddenly, a major columnist in the US claims to have word from a senior administration official that she’s an agent. Whether or not the CIA denies it, she’s not going to be able to continue to function. Anyone that doesn’t want their activities not to get back to CIA HQ is going to make damn sure she doesn’t know about their activities, just in case. They’re not going to say, “Well, maybe Novak accused her of being a spy, but until the CIA confirms it, I’ll keep doing business with her.” A credible accusation in such a case would be as bad as an outright admission. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/51 "2003-10-01T20:25:56Z")
I ain’t got no problem with double negatives, apparently. In case there’s any confusion, a sentence above should read: > [@](#): > > Anyone that wants their activities not to get back to CIA HQ is going to make damn sure she doesn’t know about their activities, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/52 "2003-10-01T20:28:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ravenman \* > According to a guest on the PBS News Hour tonight: “LARRY JOHNSON: Let’s be very clear about what happened. This is not an alleged abuse. This is a confirmed abuse. I worked with this woman. She started training with me. **She has been undercover for three decades** , she is not as Bob Novak suggested a CIA analyst. But given that, I was a CIA analyst for four years. I was undercover. I could not divulge to my family outside of my wife that I worked for the Central Intelligence Agency until I left the agency on September 30, 1989. At that point I could admit it.” > > [Link.](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media/july-dec03/leaks_09-30.html) (bolding mine) It’s my understanding that Wilson has said his wife is 40 years old. How can she be undercover for three decades? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/53 "2003-10-01T20:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > You could certainly be tried for treason. Only if the feds can flip the stripper. > [@](#): > > No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. So keep your mouth shut and keep tipping! ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/54 "2003-10-01T22:31:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ivylass \* > \*\*(bolding mine) > > It’s my understanding that Wilson has said his wife is 40 years old. How can she be undercover for three decades? \*\* 1988-2003? It’s only 15 years, but, in a quick guesstimate, it’s 3 decades… ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/55 "2003-10-01T23:03:17Z")
Limbaugh was on air today pimping the ‘no big deal’ angle. Of all the aspects he brought to ligt on his show, he somehow forgot the part where Tenet himself wrote a letter about the issue and allowed it to be printed in national newspapers. If you know a ditto head, you ought to remind them that while there’re 50 some odd instances of DoJ investigations into this sort of thing every year, this is th eonly one where the DCI has his letter to the DoJ about the case published in the national news. Rush forgot to cover th eparty line as why this is. Why DCI Tenet is playing into the hands of the Liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/56 "2003-10-01T23:39:44Z")
There’s one other part of that interview that I loved: "LARRY JOHNSON: I say this as a registered Republican. I’m on record giving contributions to the George Bush campaign. This is not about partisan politics. This is about a betrayal, a political smear of an individual with no relevance to the story. Publishing her name in that story added nothing to it. His entire intent was correctly as Ambassador Wilson noted: to intimidate, to suggest that there was some impropriety that somehow his wife was in a decision making position to influence his ability to go over and savage a stupid policy, an erroneous policy and frankly, what was a false policy of suggesting that there were nuclear material in Iraq that required this war. "This was about a political attack. To pretend that it’s something else and to get into this parsing of words, I tell you, it sickens me to be a Republican to see this. " ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/57 "2003-10-01T23:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\*1988-2003? It’s only 15 years, but, in a quick guesstimate, it’s 3 decades… \*\* Yes. More problematic is that Johnson claims he left the CIA in 1989, pretty much at the end of the Cold War. So how current can his knowledge of Plame’s occupation really be? Do you know what all your co-workers from 1989 are doing now? I assume that once you leave the CIA, you’re out of the loop. (And why would a former agent go out of his way to emphasize the deep cover nature of a former colleague’s employment?) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/58 "2003-10-01T23:58:46Z")
I suspect one reason Tenet wrote that letter is that there are plenty of CIA agents who are worried sick that they might be outed and all their contacts murdered or imprisoned, on the whim of Karl Rove. Not a good precedent, and not at all good for our intelligence-gathering activities. Our national security might well ride on the outcome of this investigation to a greater extent than we know … certainly greater than any Repub will be willing to admit. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/59 "2003-10-02T03:03:29Z")
Evil Captor: > [@](#): > > Our national security might well ride on the outcome of this investigation to a greater extent than we know … certainly greater than any Repub will be willing to admit. That’s an unfair mischaracterization, especially in light of how seriously the White House is dealing with it. I consider the protection of intelligence assets to of paramount importance. You don’t burn your own people whether they are analysts or in the field. You do not allow them to be burned. If they get burned anyway you do everything possible to get to the bottom of it and punish the guys that did it so that nobody will ever dare do it again. I’m not sure where you come off with this “certainly greater than Repub will be willing to admit” horseshit. Why is everything an excuse for a partisan politic cheapshot? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462/60 "2003-10-02T03:06:54Z")
I saw Larry Johnson on PBS Newshour last night. If he’s pointing in the general direction of Cheney (and Scooter Libby) - the CIA is doing a bit more than ‘firing shots across the bow’ The Agency was likely unhappy about Dick Cheney showing up at CIA Langley to see what could be cooked up re: Iraq. Tenet taking the fall for Condi not reading/recalling ‘notes’ from the CIA. Dunno if I was the first to reference this case on SDMB. In the July 22 thread [White House “outs” ABC reporter as gay (AND Canadian)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198662&perpage=50&highlight=wilson&pagenumber=2) - I posted some details as reported in my local paper, Newsday. I prefer quoting **Satisying Andy Licious** reply: > [@](#): > > If that information is true, it goes beyond hardball politics into dirty tricks. And that’s something I won’t support, for any politician or party. If an official, any official, goes beyond certain bounds, they have to be called for it. This reminds me of the incident some time back in which a reporter – under the banner of free speech – reported the identities of several U.S. agents abroad. Some were subsequently killed. It’s no laughing matter, and it ought to be, unequivocally, beyond the realm of politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-caught-revealing-spys-indentity-to-smear-him-over-iraq/204462.md?page=4)