# Bush Administration denies benefits to wounded Iraq veterans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793 "2007-04-05T00:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/21 "2007-04-05T08:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Well, whatever time frame is applicable, then. We do need to be able to figure out when this became a potential problem, and when it blossomed into a fully-realized problem. [/QUOTE] It shouldn’t be a **problem** , period. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/22 "2007-04-05T10:08:41Z")
I can’t imagine the amount of envelopes, toner and stamps I’d go through if I lived down there. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/23 "2007-04-05T10:49:00Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I was referring to \*\*Bricker’s \*\* drive-by dismissal of this particular pooch screwing, not the larger Pooch Screwing that provokes near unanimous condemnation. [/QUOTE] He rah-rah’ed for someone who pointed out a factual error on a website devoted to fighting ignorance. If you can find me a place where he dismisses the truthful elements of the article, I will applaud your efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/24 "2007-04-05T10:52:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] He rah-rah’ed for someone who pointed out a factual error on a website devoted to fighting ignorance. [/QUOTE] And what factual error did you imagine he pointed out? > [@](#): > > If you can find me a place where he dismisses the truthful elements of the article, I will applaud your efforts. “Bush Sucks screed” = drive-by dismissal. **Q.E.D.** ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/25 "2007-04-05T11:05:27Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] And what factual error did you imagine he pointed out? “Bush Sucks screed” = drive-by dismissal. **Q.E.D.** [/QUOTE] He rah-rah’ed for someone else who did. That someone else was **Zoe** , who pointed out that the assertion that we are talking about wounded soldiers is unfounded by the OP’s link. And insulting people who ignore it when factual errors are pointed out in preference for continuing their target bashing is called an “insult” not a dismissal. He insulted you. That’s different from dismissing the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/26 "2007-04-05T11:12:09Z")
I’ll just note that the reason I’m being a hard-ass on this point is due to this recent thread: > **[Pagans? Oh yeah, they're those touchy feely peace loving wiccan types, right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414663)** > > I found this thread on another message board to be hopelessly hilarious. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view\_all&address=389x539945 Here’s a reference for those of you who are unfamiliar with the Pagans Motorcycle... ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/27 "2007-04-05T11:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=kambuckta] Serious questions here: Isn’t psychological testing a normal part of the induction process? And from my understanding, diagnoses like Personality Disorders are not so much exhibited outwardly (like say schizophrenia or depression) but are ONLY diagnosable via a clinical test. IOW, it would be nigh on impossible for someone to cheat on a test that was properly and adequately administered because cheating would be indicative of a disorder. I’m not quite explaining myself properly here, but I think you get my drift…hopefully?? [/quote] Unless things have changed, the sole psychological “test”, if you want to call it that, is a brief interview with a psychiatrist. During my induction physical, I talked to the psychiatrist for a grand total of maybe 10 minutes, during which time he asked me if I was a lesbian. I do know, however, that people entering certain specialties are subjected to more in-depth screenings and so forth. Unfortunately, there is a world of difference between clearing someone based on a screening and someone who ends up with PTSD or some other psychological disorder that developed because of or during combat or some other extreme situation. > [@](#): > > Therefore, either the Armed Force/s testing and screening programs are woefully inadequate (in which case they are responsible), or as **Kimstu** mentioned above, the forces are knowingly sending people into conflict zones who are handicapped from the get-up. And they’re responsible. In my experience, PD is sort of a catch-all for a lot of things, not necessarily a formal Axis II diagnosis. In fact, it’s been described to me (because I was threatened with discharged based on it) as “does not play well with others.” But because it’s considered “pre-existing”, it absolves the military of a lot of responsibility. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/28 "2007-04-05T11:56:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] That someone else was **Zoe** , who pointed out that the assertion that we are talking about wounded soldiers is unfounded by the OP’s link. [/QUOTE] The link specifically detailed a soldier wounded in Iraq who was denied benefits. Where is the error? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/29 "2007-04-05T12:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] The link specifically detailed a soldier wounded in Iraq who was denied benefits. Where is the error? [/QUOTE] the implication that all/most/many of those denied benefits under pre-existing PD were also wounded in battle. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/30 "2007-04-05T12:08:10Z")
[QUOTE=wring] the implication that all/most/many of those denied benefits under pre-existing PD were also wounded in battle. [/QUOTE] You should look up the difference between ‘imply’ and ‘infer’. No where did I say that all/most/many of the Chapter 5-13 denials were wounded Iraq vets. It is undeniable that some of them are. It was also reported that the practice is increasing beyond the normal expectations of professionals in the field. How many does it take to get you care about our troops? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/31 "2007-04-05T12:08:54Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] The link specifically detailed a soldier wounded in Iraq who was denied benefits. Where is the error? [/QUOTE] As **wring** says, the implication from the thread title is that soldiers are being denied benefits _due to_ their wounds. Now it might be true that that is the case, but a sample of one doesn’t prove that. All it might prove is that it’s easier to find someone to interview in the medical ward than it is elsewhere on the military base. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/32 "2007-04-05T12:12:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] You should look up the difference between ‘imply’ and ‘infer’. [/quote] Well which did you think when you wrote the title? If you didn’t mean it to sound like that, and didn’t mean to imply that we were talking about specifically wounded soldiers, then alright. But as a kindly note, it does seem to imply that, so you might want to ask for a title change. > [@](#): > > How many does it take to get you care about our troops? That’s irrelevant. As pointed out in the Pagan thread, pointing out factual errors is entirely separate from opinions as to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/33 "2007-04-05T12:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] How many does it take to get you care about our troops? [/QUOTE] and a hearty fuck you back atchya. You asked a question, I answered it. did you happen to notice my reply to \*\* bricker\*\*? the one where I said it was reprehensible to send mentally ill soldiers into battle at all? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/34 "2007-04-05T12:21:42Z")
Didn’t we do this topic [here?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=413535) At least the conversation in that thread might prove educational in this one. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/35 "2007-04-05T12:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Now it might be true that that is the case, but a sample of one doesn’t prove that. [/QUOTE] Sample of one? Go back and read the article again. In addition to Town, the article related the similar experiences of Richard Dykstra, William Wooldridge and Chris Mosier. Then there is this: > [@](#): > > One military official says doctors at his base are doing more than withholding this information from wounded soldiers; they’re actually telling them the opposite: that if they go along with a 5-13, they’ll get to keep their bonus and receive disability and medical benefits. The official, who demanded anonymity, handles discharge papers at a prominent Army facility. He says the soldiers he works with know they don’t have a personality disorder. “But the doctors are telling them, this will get you out quicker, and the VA will take care of you. To stay out of Iraq, a soldier will take that in a heartbeat. What they don’t realize is, those things are lies. The soldiers, they don’t read the fine print,” he says. “They don’t know to ask for a med board. They’re taking the word of the doctors. Then they sit down with me and find out what a 5-13 really means–they’re shocked.” What does that imply to you, if not a pattern of abuse that goes far beyond a “pattern of one”? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/36 "2007-04-05T12:27:12Z")
[QUOTE=wring] did you happen to notice my reply to \*\* bricker\*\*? the one where I said it was reprehensible to send mentally ill soldiers into battle at all? [/QUOTE] Sorry. Must have missed it. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/37 "2007-04-05T12:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Sorry. Must have missed it. I apologize. [/QUOTE] fair 'nuff, “fuck you” retracted. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/38 "2007-04-05T15:57:45Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] “Bush Sucks screed” = drive-by dismissal. [/QUOTE] Well, he may not have meant it exactly that way; the terseness of his post may lead to ambiguities in meaning. In all fairness, he does have to economize; he can’t type as fast, one-handed, while the other hand is occupied in giving Bush a cock massage. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/39 "2007-04-05T16:10:41Z")
Well, he serves at the pleasure of the President… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793/40 "2007-04-05T16:11:42Z")
How exactly does one “suck a screed”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-denies-benefits-to-wounded-iraq-veterans/398793.md?page=3)