# Bush Administration to Fund Nuclear Mars Rocket **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440 "2003-01-18T08:01:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/141 "2003-01-22T21:57:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien2022 \* > \*\*Uhh… The space race did a lot to bankrupt the Russian economy. They ended up dumping millions upon millions of dollars into the space race, and in the end, their economy crumbled under it. That coupled with the stupid leadership ultimately lead to their demise. > > Russian communism, isn’t communism at all… More like an oligarchy. \*\* Uh, last time I checked, the Soviet Union died in 1991, **not** 1971. It wasn’t the space race that bankrupted the Soviet Union. It was the military build up during the 1980’s and the easy way in which the US demolished Soviet built equipment during the Persian Gulf War that caused the Soviet Union to fold. Had the Soviets poured the money and resources into their space program that the US did, coupled with a society that _encouraged_ the free exchange of ideas, they might still be around. Oh, and Marx is reputed to have said on his deathbed that what folks were calling communism isn’t what he meant by it at all. ---
**Author:** ![XPav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b77776/32.png) [@XPav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XPav)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/142 "2003-01-22T22:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > **Ummm, yes they are. Read the space eleveator thread. Follow the links involved. Carbon Nanotubes have been around for a while. The amount able to be produced per year has gone up dramatically. As best as I can tell, however, no one has weaved them into a macro scale cable yet.** When I say “not here yet” I mean “not practical” yet. Translating pure research into mass production isn’t a matter of getting a bigger nano-spinning jenny. The thread you point out details this from a guy that worked with them. Hell, just because we can make tiny tiny tiny amounts of antimatter doesn’t mean that Photon Torpedoes are a reality in 15 year. As **partly\_warmer** points out, the company making these claims is very short on the credibility front and high on the BS scale too. I want a space elevator – it’d be cool! Wishful thinking isn’t going to my my dream of wearing my carbon nano-pants to the space-elevator opening gala come true any sooner, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/143 "2003-01-22T23:48:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\*RTG stands for Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator. It uses the heat from radioactive isotopes to generate electricity. “Heater” in the above context means radioactive material carried for the sole purpose of heating a spacecraft, or more commonly, a vital component of a spacecraft that can be damaged by low temperature. \*\* Yes, I’m aware of that. You had mentioned nuclear powered _rockets_, and I misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/144 "2003-01-23T01:04:24Z")
I think Bush wants to go to Mars for several reasons: 1. He’s a fan of space. So’s his Dad. He was personally responsible for appointing O’keefe as administrator of Nasa, and O’Keefe seems to be a visionary with all kinds of grand ideas for exotic propulsion systems and missions. 2. At a time when the U.S. is being attacked all over the world both literally and figuratively, it’s good politics to step forward and do something audacious, peaceful, and uplifting. This is the way America says, “We’re a great country.” 3. There’s a new space race. China and India are both ramping up their programs in a big way. And the lesson of the last 30 years is that it’s very important to be the leader in space. I’m not talking about space-based weapons, but the ways in which being the leader in space pays off are vast. For example, think about the enormous advantage the GPS satellite network gives to the U.S. military. 4. The time is right. Bush Sr. tried to kick off a nuclear rocket program, but he did so right at the peak of the anti-nuke luddite Earth-First! frenzy, and anything nuclear was DOA. But nuclear power is undergoing a bit of a renaissance right now, and the 9/11 attacks have caused other considerations to fade in favor of reducing energy dependence on foreign countries. So nuclear is coming into vogue again. 5. The time is also right because NASA is at a technological dead-end. Some quantum improvements need to be made to re-invigorate NASA. 6. This is a big one - Bush is the ‘education president’, and his wife is a teacher. And the U.S. is in danger of critical shortages of scientific and engineering talent. The huge bubble of engineers that came of age during and immediately after the space race are close to retirement, and enrollment in engineering and physics is down. Bush sees this as a way to inspire young people and ensure that the U.S. ha sa solid base of talent in the next 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/145 "2003-01-23T01:14:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > Bush is the ‘education president’, \*\* Proposing vouchers for private schools? I must differ with you on that one. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/146 "2003-01-23T16:54:22Z")
Wow, it looks like NASA isn’t going just for a simple fission engine… they’re working on a fusion rocket. [http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993294](http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993294) This just gets more and more interesting, this is taking several leaps ahead in technology. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/147 "2003-01-23T17:09:53Z")
Well yeah, but it’s the last paragraph that’s a kicker > [@](#): > > If fusion researchers can ever achieve stable, break-even fusion, Emrich believes a full-scale fusion drive - perhaps 100 metres long - could be ready and waiting within two decades The NTR is doable now. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/148 "2003-01-24T19:23:29Z")
Another big impetus to the development of the fusion rocket is that the public is much much more likely to accept a fusion powered rocket than a fission powered one. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/149 "2003-01-24T19:42:48Z")
The public doesn’t really know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/150 "2003-01-24T20:16:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Wow, it looks like NASA isn’t going just for a simple fission engine… they’re working on a fusion rocket. That’s freakin’ ridiculous. Hail science! ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/151 "2003-01-25T07:58:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\* there will need to be global discourse to come up with guidelines to ensure that ethics go with us out into space, and violence, destruction, and disease stay at home. No easy task, but it must be considered. > \*\* No easy task? That’s quite an understatement… How do you propose to seperate humans from violence, destruction and disease? Make more laws? Space is a very tough environment. If we ever make it to Mars, it won’t be any picnic there either. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/152 "2003-01-26T09:17:22Z")
More details: [NASA Chief Confirms Plan For Space Power](http://msnbc.com/news/864091.asp?0bl=-0). It looks like they’re on a very aggressive plan to have a fleet of new space planes in 8-10 years as well as fully funding project Prometheus. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/153 "2003-01-26T18:44:26Z")
This post has got me all excited about the potential of the space program. Too excited, and if Idon’t hear a grand announcement from Bush on Tuesday, I will curse your name **Sam**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/154 "2003-01-26T19:31:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > [NASA Chief Confirms Plan For Space Power](http://msnbc.com/news/864091.asp?0bl=-0). Cool 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/155 "2003-01-26T19:37:30Z")
I’m now starting to doubt that there will be an announcement of this in the State of the Union address. There’s just too much going on in the world right now - if I were the administration, I’d be worried about public reaction to a very prominent announcement of major funding increases to NASA. If he doesn’t say anything during the SOUA, he’s got another big speech coming up shortly thereafter when he submits the 2004 budget to Congress. If we don’t hear about these plans during the SOUA, we’ll hear about it in the budget speech. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/156 "2003-01-26T20:33:07Z")
He needs to go to Rice University to make the announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/157 "2003-01-26T20:37:40Z")
I sure hope Bush figures out how to fund this thing in as _nonpartisan_ a way as possible. It’ll be tough enough muzzling the anti-nuke crowd without having Ted and Hillary and all getting their hackles up too. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/158 "2003-01-26T20:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > It looks like they’re on a very aggressive plan to have a fleet of new space planes **in 8-10 years** as well as fully funding project Prometheus. So, Bush signs his successor up to figure out how to fund a new generation of space planes, and you give him the credit for actually doing the deed? Color me underwhelmed. It’s easy to make promises for other people. Now if he promised to drop the NMD project and spend that money on NASA, THAT would be a promise to get excited over. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/159 "2003-01-26T21:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > if Idon’t hear a grand announcement from Bush on Tuesday, I will curse your name Sam. The Million Geek March on Washington. Get all the space nuts, Trekkies, not-yet-cynical children and teens, alien abductees, etc., and march on the Mall. Write your Congressman. Mars or Bust! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440/160 "2003-01-26T22:16:17Z")
> [@](#): > > So, Bush signs his successor up to figure out how to fund a new generation of space planes, and you give him the credit for actually doing the deed? Geez you’re working awfully hard to spin this negatively, Tejota. If Bush is in power for six more years, the brunt of the funding is going to fall on him. And his funding plans for a nuclear rocket are not years down the road. There are substantial increases in the NEXT budget. I see no evidence that he’s dumping the funding off on some future successor. You know, this thread has been remarkably non-partisan so far. Let’s try to keep it that way. There are plenty of space proponents and opponents on both sides of the aisle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-administration-to-fund-nuclear-mars-rocket/149440.md?page=9)