# Bush already planning on using Bird Flu as excuse for Military Action in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946 "2005-10-05T20:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/61 "2005-10-07T08:50:29Z")
Let me see if I can make this any more clear to those who still don’t understand my main point. What good would a military enforced quarantine do against a virus spread by fucking BIRDS? Of all the reasons he could come up with for using the military domestically, he comes up with this one? What The Fuck? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/62 "2005-10-07T13:04:49Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Reading through the article, I actually don’t blame Bush for this. He’s just suggesting to Congress that they grant him the ability to use military forces in the United States… > …It’s just a suggestion. The President is free to ask Congress for any power he does not currently have and which Congress has the ability to grant. Scary thoughts, Bush asks Congress for legislation, Since the flu epidemic isn’t even a real threat yet, Congress writes Bush a blank check, Congress “Uhh, If any thing bad happens the president is in charge, it’s his problem, we’re just here to help or something {should we be giving a all these powers to the president triggered by his discretion. Shouldn’t we wait for a real emergency, and make Bush ask us then, don’t want to set a precedent or anything}” > [@](#): > > …In short, I’ll blame Congress for this one if anyone takes his suggestion seriously, not Bush for suggesting it. If congress fucks this one up I’m sharpening up my guillotine. Liberté, Egalité, Fraternity ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/63 "2005-10-07T13:44:35Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > 1. Go on vacation. You may think that remark is clever; however, it merely brands you as ignorant. When most people go on vacation, they leave their jobs behind. When the President of the United States of America goes on vacation, the job goes with him. Now, either you realize that and decided to make a moronic comment just for the laugh factor (and actually failed) or you don’t realize it and are just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/64 "2005-10-07T13:54:43Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > And Congress is free to say his idea is the most assinine suggestion since…well…since the last time Bush had an original thought run through **his cocaine-addled head** and he can shove it so far up his ass he finds his own Weapons of Mass Destruction. The bolded part essentially ruined the rest of your comments. You wouldn’t happen to have any actual evidence that the President is on cocaine? Or do you like looking like a jerk when you make such baseless accusations? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/65 "2005-10-07T14:13:39Z")
> [@Mac Guffin](#): > > Let me see if I can make this any more clear to those who still don’t understand my main point. > > What good would a military enforced quarantine do against a virus spread by fucking BIRDS? > Of all the reasons he could come up with for using the military domestically, he comes up with this one? What The Fuck? When it becomes necessary to quarantine, the virus would be spread by people. It is unclear, at least to me, whether the mutated virus would still be carried by birds. The 1918 strain (H1N1) apparently was strain that leapt species and was completely avian, though slightly mutated to allow it to infect humans. The strains which caused both the 1957 (H2N2) or the 1968 (H3N2) pandemics had mutated to carry both human DNA, and Avian DNA, and were not infectious to birds. However, it appears that both avian strains H5N1, and H7N7 are moseying along the genetic path similar to that of H1N1. I do agree with you on the fact that quarantine wouldn’t be effective. On an optimistic note, though, it does seem that the President is talking to Pharmaceutical companies about vaccine production, so perhaps he will give up the silliness about using troops. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/66 "2005-10-07T18:17:10Z")
**Mac Guffin** > [@](#): > > Let me see if I can make this any more clear to those who still don’t understand my main point. > > What good would a military enforced quarantine do against a virus spread by fucking BIRDS? > Of all the reasons he could come up with for using the military domestically, he comes up with this one? What The Fuck? You’re not making it clear. So if the quarantine is just an excuse, what is Bush’s true motive for using the military domestically? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/67 "2005-10-07T19:04:18Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > You’re not making it clear. So if the quarantine is just an excuse, what is Bush’s true motive for using the military domestically? I think that is his reason for using the military domestically, I just think he’s a moron for thinking it would be effective. Fucking with the law can open us up to problems and abuses down the road. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/68 "2005-10-07T19:29:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > When most people go on vacation, they leave their jobs behind. When the President of the United States of America goes on vacation, the job goes with him. 1. I know lots of folks who go on vacation and end up taking their work with them, the poor lads and lasses. 2. Do we have any evidence that _this_ President actually “takes his work with him” when he’s on vacation? Because I’m thinking about all the wood-chopping bicycle-riding golf-swinging photo-ops and fundraisers he attends while on vacation, and wondering just how much time he has left for “real work” between all that relaxin’. Hell, we know for a fact that a PDB entitled [“Bin Laden Determined To Attack Inside the United States”](http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44925) wasn’t enough to stir him into action in August 2001, and that even a catastrophic hurricane bearing down on Louisiana couldn’t get him to interrupt his planned [visit to a golf resort.](http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/30/as-katrina-struck-bush-vacationed/) ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/69 "2005-10-07T19:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that is his reason for using the military domestically, I just think he’s a moron for thinking it would be effective. Fucking with the law can open us up to problems and abuses down the road. I’m just waiting for **Mac Guffin** to say that Bush wants to take over the country militarily. Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/70 "2005-10-07T20:24:38Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I’m just waiting for **Mac Guffin** to say that Bush wants to take over the country militarily. Huh? 😕 Nah, the president just wants the capability of ramming a busted chem-light up Al Gore’s ass whenever he feels like it. All this “with us or against us” talk since 9/11, and the labeling of those who disagree with the republican party as “America haters” clearly shows what direction Bush wants to take our government. Do you need a gun pointed _directly_ at your head before you can work up a little skepticism about his motives? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/71 "2005-10-07T23:15:52Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > 1. Do we have any evidence that _this_ President actually “takes his work with him” when he’s on vacation? Yes, we do. Next time you see photos/videos of this president on vacation, take a look at all those folks hanging out with him. The rest of your comment was absolutely asinine and deserves no other response. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/72 "2005-10-08T02:59:54Z")
[It was a disaster last time we tried it, so let’s try it again:](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051008/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/new_spying_rule) > [@](#): > > Attempting to loosen decades-old restrictions, the Pentagon is asking Congress to allow its intelligence agents to go undercover when they approach Americans who may have useful national-security information, rather than identifying themselves as intelligence operatives. > … > The regulations were imposed to prevent recurrence of the intelligence scandals of the 1960s and 1970s, when the Defense Department was caught spying on American anti-war protesters. Civil liberties advocates raise similar concerns now, worried that the powers the DIA is seeking could be abused. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/73 "2005-10-08T03:09:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You may think that remark is clever;. No, it was weak. :o , way too obvious, no subtly. I should have said, 5. Clear brush. Of the brush clearing presidents, GW Bush has set a high mark for future 21st century presidents. But, as most historians agree, the greatest brush clearing president will always be Ronald Reagan. Unlike Lincoln, (voted 3rd greatest brush clearing president) Reagan had access to power tools. A chainsaw in his hands, Reagan was the nations greatest weapon in the unceasing war on uncleared brush. > [@](#): > > however, it merely brands you as ignorant. When most people go on vacation, they leave their jobs behind. When the President of the United States of America goes on vacation, the job goes with him. > > Now, either you realize that and decided to make a moronic comment just for the laugh factor (and actually failed) I said it was a bad joke, I’m sorry, I’ll never do it again. I promise. > [@](#): > > or you don’t realize it and are just ignorant. I get a choice! Hooray!!! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/74 "2005-10-08T05:37:16Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I’m just waiting for **Mac Guffin** to say that Bush wants to take over the country militarily. Huh? 😕 I wasn’t trying to make that point. As **World Eater** Stated, I was wondering about the usefulness of the military against a bird spread virus. I now see , thanks to **light stand** that the mutated virus wouldn’t likely be vectored by birds. While I doubt Bush would be stupid enough to use the military against the citizens of this country, the idea of the posibility of being told by the ARMY that I would be unable to leave a city leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/75 "2005-10-08T15:07:46Z")
Wow Monty, being much of a twat today? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/76 "2005-10-08T16:00:53Z")
> [@Mac Guffin](#): > > While I doubt Bush would be stupid enough to use the military against the citizens of this country, the idea of the posibility of being told by the ARMY that I would be unable to leave a city leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. If your town was put under quarantine because of an outbreak of an infectious disease, and the quarantine barricades were manned by Boy Scouts who told you to turn back, would you: A) Even listen or B) Turn cheerfully around and go back to your home? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/77 "2005-10-08T17:05:59Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#): > > I’m not convinced that he will interpret the facts correctly. We all see how this administration treats the output of scientists studying global warming, and that his take on oil conservation is to drive less, not require higher mileage standards. Not to hijack, but I already see where that would go. Oil guys would cry about decreasing revenues and falling profits and disgruntled shareholders, and would jack up the price (again) to cover the losses caused by decreased consumption. Bottom line, more profits for less output. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/78 "2005-10-09T01:36:21Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > If your town was put under quarantine because of an outbreak of an infectious disease, and the quarantine barricades were manned by Boy Scouts who told you to turn back, would you: > A) Even listen or > B) Turn cheerfully around and go back to your home? I don’t think that quarantining entire cities is a good idea no matter who mans the borders. I think using the regular military to prevent free movement of citizens of this country is an even worse idea. Another thing is, if it did come down to military closing of city borders, well that is what we have the national guard for, isn’t it? I mean before we started using them in places like Iraq and not for national emergencies. It’s all topsy-turvy to send the National guard to fight overseas and want to use the regular military at home. If Rumsfeld used the military like it’s supposed to be used, we’d have plenty of guard troops to do things like this. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/79 "2005-10-09T07:05:00Z")
> [@Mac Guffin](#): > > I don’t think that quarantining entire cities is a good idea no matter who mans the borders. I think using the regular military to prevent free movement of citizens of this country is an even worse idea. > > Another thing is, if it did come down to military closing of city borders, well that is what we have the national guard for, isn’t it? And when did you get your degree in infectious diseases? I don’t think the Avian Flu is one of them, but I could certainly envision a situation where quarantining a city might be necessary (like a biological terror attack). If doctors and the CDC determine that a quarantine IS the best way to deal with an infectious outbreak, than I damn well hope that the government imposes one. As for using the National Guard, there’s two problems with that. Number one, local and state governments are NOT going to jump enthusiastically to quarantine one of their cities. Look how piss poor the response of the Louisiana authorities was to Katrina. The Feds were urging them to call for an evacuation of New Orleans for a full 18 hours before they actually did so. A quarantine situation is going to require a quick response for it to work. If that response is the responsibility of state and local authorities, chances are that lots of people from the affected area will be long gone by the time they act, defeating the purpose of a quarantine in the first place. That brings us to problem two. The way around problem one is for the President to federalize the local National Guard units so he can order them into place. The moment he does that, however, they become regular army troops as far as the law is concerned, and we’re back where we started. See the problem? Better to have the whole process worked out before hand IMO, but apparently we can’t do that either because the president bringing the issue up for discussion leads to OMG! Bush is teh suxxor!!! hand wringing like this thread. > [@](#): > > I mean before we started using them in places like Iraq and not for national emergencies. It’s all topsy-turvy to send the National guard to fight overseas and want to use the regular military at home. If Rumsfeld used the military like it’s supposed to be used, we’d have plenty of guard troops to do things like this. You really have no clue how the armed forces of this country are structured, do you? Because if you did, you wouldn’t have said something as stupid as this. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/80 "2005-10-09T15:06:37Z")
Bush is right. Whether its global warming, and its effects, $3 a gallon for gas, and the poverty that that brings, or the inevitable diseases which might kill off 200 or so dopers, human overpopulation has its consequences. We brought this all upon ourselves. At some point, mother nature will clean up the mess we made. Fucked as we may be, I’d close the borders sooner rather than later, and enforce qurantines. I’d also quit making hay about abortions, and adopt a china-style overpopulation program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946.md?page=5)