# Bush already planning on using Bird Flu as excuse for Military Action in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946 "2005-10-05T20:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/81 "2005-10-09T16:43:11Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > I’d also quit making hay about abortions, and adopt a china-style overpopulation program. It won’t be much longer before population growth in the western industrialized nations comes only from immigration. Reproductive based population growth is stalling out. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/82 "2005-10-09T21:00:33Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > As for using the National Guard, there’s two problems with that. Number one, local and state governments are NOT going to jump enthusiastically to quarantine one of their cities. Look how piss poor the response of the Louisiana authorities was to Katrina. The Feds were urging them to call for an evacuation of New Orleans for a full 18 hours before they actually did so. A quarantine situation is going to require a quick response for it to work. If that response is the responsibility of state and local authorities, chances are that lots of people from the affected area will be long gone by the time they act, defeating the purpose of a quarantine in the first place. That brings us to problem two. The way around problem one is for the President to federalize the local National Guard units so he can order them into place. The moment he does that, however, they become regular army troops as far as the law is concerned, and we’re back where we started. See the problem? Better to have the whole process worked out before hand IMO, but apparently we can’t do that either because the president bringing the issue up for discussion leads to OMG! Bush is teh suxxor!!! hand wringing like this thread. …a third reason just occured to me. From my understanding of the way the system works in the US: the National Guard are pooled from the population of the State they live in. If an area was put under quarantine, wouldn’t it be risky to activate the local national guard? Wouldn’t they be IN the affected area? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/83 "2005-10-10T03:58:37Z")
Please point out where, in that article that you quoted, you think it says that Bush is planning on using Bird Flu as an excuse for Military Action in the U.S. Because I read it several times, and the article said absolutely nothing of the sort. Yes, he put using the military on the table. And he was very, very specific that use of the military was _ONE_ option to be considered by Congress. > [@](#): > > “One option is the use of a military that’s able to plan and move,” he said. “So that’s why I put it on the table. I think it’s an important debate for Congress to have.” And further: > [@](#): > > The consequences of an outbreak in the United States need to be addressed before catastrophe strikes, Bush said. > > The president said he saw things differently than he did as governor of Texas. “I didn’t want the president telling me how to be the commander in chief of the Texas Guard,” he said. > > “But Congress needs to take a look at circumstances that may need to vest the capacity of the president to move beyond that debate. And one such catastrophe or one such challenge could be an avian flu outbreak.” Sounds to me like some plans are being made in advance to handle a potentially very deadly scenario for this country. Yes, they are extreme. Yes, they are worst-case. But frankly, I’m glad someone is making the plans. And listening to the conspiracy theorists running around imitating Chicken Little because he’s trying to cover all the possible options is really disheartening. And more than a little nauseating as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/84 "2005-10-10T11:12:52Z")
The good news is that someone is giving some thought to the problem. The bad news is that someone is GeeDubya. And lets just take a moment to put a stop to the scurrilous rumor that GeeDubya means to name Col Sanders to head up the anti-flu effort. That is preposterous. The good Col. is deceased, several years now. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/85 "2005-10-10T14:17:19Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > And when did you get your degree in infectious diseases? I don’t think the Avian Flu is one of them, but I could certainly envision a situation where quarantining a city might be necessary (like a biological terror attack). If doctors and the CDC determine that a quarantine IS the best way to deal with an infectious outbreak, than I damn well hope that the government imposes one. Hey! I do indeed have a degree in infectious diseases (if you count microbiology/chemistry/molecular biology as infectious disease). A city-wide quarantine would be useless. In fact, quarantine would be useless even in the case of Biological weapons, unless they had prior knowledge of the attack, in which case, I would expect something to happen before the attack. A more effective method of quarantine would be by quadrant, or hospital, or neighborhood. None of these would require troops, and in fact, could probably be quite voluntary. Generally the CDC does not make such recommendations. The CDC’s role is information, and research. It is usually not considered an political advisory body. > [@Weirddave](#): > > As for using the National Guard, there’s two problems with that. Number one, local and state governments are NOT going to jump enthusiastically to quarantine one of their cities. Look how piss poor the response of the Louisiana authorities was to Katrina. The Feds were urging them to call for an evacuation of New Orleans for a full 18 hours before they actually did so. Sure, they were. And Blanco said she “didn’t know how to activate the National Guard”. Unfortunately, much like most of what you hear on AM radio, just because they say it often enough, doesn’t make it true. I can’t find any reliable source for either of these claims, despite rather intense searching. However, you made the claim, so you have to back it up. > [@Weirddave](#): > > A quarantine situation is going to require a quick response for it to work. If that response is the responsibility of state and local authorities, chances are that lots of people from the affected area will be long gone by the time they act, defeating the purpose of a quarantine in the first place. If you want to prepare for something of this magnitude, wouldn’t it make more sense to train the local sources for quick reaction then? > [@Weirddave](#): > > That brings us to problem two. The way around problem one is for the President to federalize the local National Guard units so he can order them into place. The moment he does that, however, they become regular army troops as far as the law is concerned, and we’re back where we started. See the problem? Nope, this just isn’t true. The President can not federalize National Guard troops without the permission of the state governor. After National Guard troops are federalized, they are NOT regular Army troops. They remain in a cohesive unit, are still considered National Guard, and continue to have the same unit structure. The only difference is that they take their orders from different military authorities than prior to federalization. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Better to have the whole process worked out before hand IMO, but apparently we can’t do that either because the president bringing the issue up for discussion leads to OMG! Bush is teh suxxor!!! hand wringing like this thread. The president is attempting a Power Grab just to float a balloon. Don’t kid yourself differently. > [@Weirddave](#): > > You really have no clue how the armed forces of this country are structured, do you? Because if you did, you wouldn’t have said something as stupid as this. Wow, you’re certainly one to talk. You have no fucking idea about how the military is run in this country, do you? Quite frankly, he’s right. Unfortunately the military decided to skew the specialized training toward the Guard and Reserves. For example, almost all NBC units are reservists. For whatever reason, someone at the top decided that almost all active until should be infantry. This means they simply don’t have active units who can do specialized tasks, so they are forced to call up Guard and Reserve units. The National Guard (IMO) should not have to be activated for over-sea duty, and should be used as the Constitution intended; and that is as a State Regulated militia, who is used for state emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/86 "2005-10-10T16:40:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The bolded part essentially ruined the rest of your comments. You wouldn’t happen to have any actual evidence that the President is on cocaine? Or do you like looking like a jerk when you make such baseless accusations? I’m sure others would be pleased as punch to show you all the habits and signs and mannerisms of GW Bush that point towards his continued usage of cocaine or similar drugs. I, however, have made no such accusations. I’m merely pointing out that long-term, continual use of cocaine can and does impair motor and cognitive ability. Hence, I stand by my comment of Bush’s drug-addled brain, jerky though it may sound to you. > **[Chronic, Heavy Cocaine Use Associated With Long-Lasting Impaired Function](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073334.htm)** > > The detrimental effects of heavy cocaine use on an individual's manual dexterity, problem solving, and other critical skills can last for up to a month after the drug was taken, according to a study reported in the Summer issue of The Journal of... ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/87 "2005-10-10T18:19:12Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > Hey! I do indeed have a degree in infectious diseases (if you count microbiology/chemistry/molecular biology as infectious disease). A city-wide quarantine would be useless. In fact, quarantine would be useless even in the case of Biological weapons, unless they had prior knowledge of the attack, in which case, I would expect something to happen before the attack. A more effective method of quarantine would be by quadrant, or hospital, or neighborhood. None of these would require troops, and in fact, could probably be quite voluntary. Generally the CDC does not make such recommendations. The CDC’s role is information, and research. It is usually not considered an political advisory body. You can argue all you want about what methods of quarantine would be most effective in what circumstances, and if you have a degree in infectious diseases, your knowledge of that far outstrips my own. However if you expect people to voluntarily stay in an infected zone, you are a blithering idiot. > [@light strand](#): > > Sure, they were. And Blanco said she “didn’t know how to activate the National Guard”. Unfortunately, much like most of what you hear on AM radio, just because they say it often enough, doesn’t make it true. I can’t find any reliable source for either of these claims, despite rather intense searching. However, you made the claim, so you have to back it up. I don’t understand what you are claiming. A federal state of emergency was declared on Saturday the 27th. Mayor Nagin didn’t order a mandatory evacuation until Sunday morning. Do you deny this? > [@light strand](#): > > The President can not federalize National Guard troops without the permission of the state governor. After National Guard troops are federalized, they are NOT regular Army troops. They remain in a cohesive unit, are still considered National Guard, and continue to have the same unit structure. The only difference is that they take their orders from different military authorities than prior to federalization. This is simply not true. While National Guard troops remain cohesive units, after they are federalized they are considered federal troops and are subject to the same restrictions that the Posse Comitatus Act imposes on other federal troops. It is only while they are under command of their state governor that they are exempt from these restrictions. > [@light strand](#): > > The president is attempting a Power Grab just to float a balloon. Don’t kid yourself differently. yea, yea, black helicopters, martial law, blah, blah, blah. Keep your paranoia to yourself, will you? It’s your right to rave like a loon, that doesn’t mean your rantings are credible. > [@light strand](#): > > Wow, you’re certainly one to talk. You have no fucking idea about how the military is run in this country, do you? Quite frankly, he’s right. Unfortunately the military decided to skew the specialized training toward the Guard and Reserves. For example, almost all NBC units are reservists. For whatever reason, someone at the top decided that almost all active until should be infantry. This means they simply don’t have active units who can do specialized tasks, so they are forced to call up Guard and Reserve units. What the fuck is your point? You say I’m “certainly one to talk. You have no fucking idea about how the military is run in this country, do you?”, and then go right on to say that I am 100% correct: The US can’t put fully combat capable forces in the field without Guard and Reserve units, which was my exact point. > [@light strand](#): > > The National Guard (IMO) should not have to be activated for over-sea duty, and should be used as the Constitution intended; and that is as a State Regulated militia, who is used for state emergencies. Well, thank God you’re not in charge of anything except your mouth then. You are entitled to your opinion. That doesn’t mean that it has any merit. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/88 "2005-10-10T19:31:23Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > Bush is right. Whether its global warming, and its effects, $3 a gallon for gas, and the poverty that that brings, or the inevitable diseases which might kill off 200 or so dopers, human overpopulation has its consequences. > > We brought this all upon ourselves. At some point, mother nature will clean up the mess we made. Fucked as we may be, I’d close the borders sooner rather than later, and enforce qurantines. I’d also quit making hay about abortions, and adopt a china-style overpopulation program. Yeah, disease is a big 'ol Malthusian check, it ain’t going anywhere. Personally I’d rather see more attention paid to upgrading vaccine production, distribution, and any tangentally related healthcare system upgrades deemed neccessary. Not only do we protect ourselves better against an avian flu outbreak, but we’re left with a better system to deal with unforeseen problems down the road. Besides, quarantining a city is a pipedream. The real question is why does bush need additional powers? Doesn’t he _already_ have all the tools he’d need to integrate the military into a response? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/89 "2005-10-10T20:09:42Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You can argue all you want about what methods of quarantine would be most effective in what circumstances, and if you have a degree in infectious diseases, your knowledge of that far outstrips my own. However if you expect people to voluntarily stay in an infected zone, you are a blithering idiot. Voluntary quarantines happen all of the time. You see, generally folks aren’t terribly peppy when ill, so they really don’t want to go anywhere. Voluntary quarantines happen most often in Universities, generally in response to viral meningitis outbreaks. Healthy people usually stay, oddly enough, for altruistic reasons. Even in the hospital we rarely have problems keeping quarantines intact. Small regional quarantines should easily be controlled by local authorities. But hey! Call me a blithering idiot. Just a second…let me wipe the drool here. This leads to an interesting aside: In fact, polio has been nearly eradicated due to controlled quarantines instead of vaccinations. Because of the conditions (mostly third world poor) of modern victims, WHO determined, quite cleverly in my opinion (which you’ve made it clear how much value) that it was simply not terribly practical to vaccinate remote, poor populaces, so what they do is control the outbreaks with antivirals. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t be practical in first world due to the mobility, but it’s an interesting study in disease control. > [@Weirddave](#): > > I don’t understand what you are claiming. A federal state of emergency was declared on Saturday the 27th. Mayor Nagin didn’t order a mandatory evacuation until Sunday morning. Do you deny this? Dave, there is a problem with your response here. That is, you’ve changed your original question. see: > [@](#): > > Look how piss poor the response of the Louisiana authorities was to Katrina. The Feds were urging them to call for an evacuation of New Orleans for a full 18 hours before they actually did so. To which I replied “I can’t find any reliable source for either of these claims, despite rather intense searching. However, you made the claim, so you have to back it up.” To which you replied with the fist above quote. You see Dave, but that’s not what you said. I do agree a Federal Natural Disaster was called at the behest of Governor Blanco. How does this equate to “The Feds were urging them to call for an evacuation of New Orleans for a full 18 hours before they actually did so”? It doesn’t. You can change the context, but you can’t change the facts. > [@Weirddave](#): > > This is simply not true. While National Guard troops remain cohesive units, after they are federalized they are considered federal troops and are subject to the same restrictions that the Posse Comitatus Act imposes on other federal troops. It is only while they are under command of their state governor that they are exempt from these restrictions. But it is indeed true. Ask a National Guardsman if he is Army. I can guarantee you he will say he’s not. Troops called up to do active duty oversea have been “Federalized” but they, like I’d said, remain in cohesive units. However, after re-reading your post, I think we may actually be actually arguing semantics. I thought you were actually saying they were absorbed into the Army as a whole, but now I’m wondering if that’s what you’re saying at all. I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. > [@Weirddave](#): > > yea, yea, black helicopters, martial law, blah, blah, blah. Keep your paranoia to yourself, will you? It’s your right to rave like a loon, that doesn’t mean your rantings are credible. So can I rant, or not? Let me know when you decide if I have any legitimate right to have any beliefs which differ from yours. I’ll elaborate, but only after I get your permission to have an opinion. > [@Weirddave](#): > > What the fuck is your point? You say I’m “certainly one to talk. You have no fucking idea about how the military is run in this country, do you?”, and then go right on to say that I am 100% correct: The US can’t put fully combat capable forces in the field without Guard and Reserve units, which was my exact point. But Dave, How could I possibly have grasped any point whatsoever when this is your entire point: > [@Weirddave](#): > > You really have no clue how the armed forces of this country are structured, do you? Because if you did, you wouldn’t have said something as stupid as this. That’s all you said dude! It was an insult, no more, no less. No explaination, no refute. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Well, thank God you’re not in charge of anything except your mouth then. You are entitled to your opinion. That doesn’t mean that it has any merit. Well actually, I’m in charge of a bunch of stuff. But I don’t suppose it has any merit. Except to the people whose lives have been improved directly due to the work I do. But those folks don’t matter, because you and I disagree on an insignificant political point. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/90 "2005-10-10T21:26:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > But what about recruiting or coercing the pharmaceutical companies. Lets declare martial law on there asses. Can you, uh, explain that? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/91 "2005-10-10T21:43:27Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > The real question is why does bush need additional powers? Doesn’t he _already_ have all the tools he’d need to integrate the military into a response? Now that is an excellent question. After having a little too much wine, and feeling just a bit “more free”, I say, the stupid bastard can’t even handle the power he already has. He’s already proven to be a major fuck up to the point his own constituents and supporters are starting to desert him. The last thing he needs is more power. Every piss ant tyrant got power by declaring some emergency only he could save people from. Read the history books, people. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/92 "2005-10-10T23:04:39Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I’m sure others would be pleased as punch to show you all the habits and signs and mannerisms of GW Bush that point towards his continued usage of cocaine or similar drugs. I, however, have made no such accusations. I’m merely pointing out that long-term, continual use of cocaine can and does impair motor and cognitive ability. Hence, I stand by my comment of Bush’s drug-addled brain, jerky though it may sound to you. > > [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073334.htm](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073334.htm) It was you, not others, who in this thread asserted that Bush is cocaine addled. You haven’t posted real proof. Perhaps you think it’s fun to trash someone without actual proof and maybe it is. That it may be fun does not make it a true statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/93 "2005-10-11T00:05:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It was you, not others, who in this thread asserted that Bush is cocaine addled. You haven’t posted real proof. Perhaps you think it’s fun to trash someone without actual proof and maybe it is. That it may be fun does not make it a true statement. Wow, a Bush defender. Okay, see Fortunate Son, where the publisher of the second edition cites Karl Rove as the source for the accusations that Bush used cocaine (which causes long term damage.) Rove has not denied this and neither have taken legal action. Nor has Bush. Bush has in fact admitted to the use of illicit substances in the 00 campaign before the age of 40, but declined to describe which ones. Moreover, Kitty Kelly has cited Sharon Bush (ex of Neal) as saying that W used cocaine at Camp David while Poppy was prez, and has her saying it in front of a witness, which Ms. Bush, now that she has a confidentiality requirement for her divorce settlement denies saying, and she too has declined to pursue a libel suit, presumably because that would entitle the defendant to subpoena all the relevant witnesses to make a statement under penalty of perjury. Bush, Rove and Sharon Bush could all bring suit about these libelous claims, the only defense for which would be truth, and they decline. Ms. Kelly’s publishing house is generally considered a responsible one. Reportedly Mr. Hatfield’s publishing house was convinced that Rove had made such statements to Hatfield in order to discredit the charges by putting them in the hands of a scum like Hatfield. That doesn’t make Rove’s statements true, but it is kind of odd that Rove has never denied making them or sued for libel. All told, that is enough evidence by itself to conclude in the absence of a Bush denial, that he used cocaine. At some point the burden of proof shifts, and a person that does not bring forth evidence in their favor isn’t doing so because the evidence isn’t favorable, but rather unfavorable. So where is your evidence that Bush didn’t use cocaine? Other illicit drugs? A mere denial won’t cut it. And please explain his plain neurological damage? Look at a videotape of him speaking five, ten and fifteen years ago and compare it to today (or a few years ago). Bush is losing an awful lot of brain function for a guy not yet 60. This is more evidence of long term cocaine abuse. [http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000743.htm](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000743.htm) So in light of the witnesses and the physical/mental state of the abuser, where is his denial? Missing? Nope, he doesn’t deny he used illicit drugs a few decades back in such a way that I would suppose would be construed as an admission in a non-criminal court of law. There is ample evidence for the public to conclude that Bush’s admitted substance abuse included cocaine. There is also ample evidence to try the son of a bitch from war crimes and crimes against humanity, and I, for one, hope to live long enough to see it happen. Can I prove that Bush used campaign with enough evidence to convince his ardent supporters? No, but that is never a debate standard. But I do have enough evidence that if whether he has ever used cocaine in the past is the issue of debate, that the burden should be shifted to him to specifically deny it if there are neutral judges and to have it admitted by default if he does not. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/94 "2005-10-11T01:57:15Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > Healy said soldiers are not trained as police officers, and putting them in a civilian law enforcement role “can result in serious collateral damage to American life and liberty.” Did everyone see the photo of the National Guard hummer going into New Orleans with rifles pointed in every direction? While their commander was saying their purpose was to “take back New Orleans”? I wonder what the NG grunts were told were the “rules of engagement”, ie, when were they allowed and required to shoot. And this was for the purpose of dealing with families and elders crouched in their attics without drinking water for days. The authorities’ fear was caused by failure to verify or quantify rumors of shooting at rescuers. Missing was the concept of rescue of the civil population, and the concept of what that population pays taxes for, and the concept of government for the people. Not to mention that in time of civil disasters, experienced authorities get the area patrolled before the population has time to get out of hand. I’ve been a civilian in more than one situation where that has happened, and no problems ensued. The one you’ve heard of was the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989. In New Orleans, the Guard was available but not put into the city until after the hurricane. While the others cringed, the Coast Guard came right in with helicopters and performed 24,000 rescues. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/95 "2005-10-11T03:22:11Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Can you, uh, explain that? How long have scientists been warning us about THIS flu, H5N1? Since the start of the epidemic, in December 2003 have we been stockpiling Tamiflu? Last year there was a major problem distributing the regular flu vaccines. Did the president do ANYTHING about it? Why am I not surprised by [this.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/story/0,14207,1588171,00.html) You can’t kill viruses M16’s, we need vaccines. But you can do soo much more with an M16. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/96 "2005-10-11T03:40:59Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Last year there was a major problem distributing the regular flu vaccines. You can’t distribute what you don’t have; [Production Problems at Chiron:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18795-2004Oct8.html) > [@](#): > > Records at Britain’s Department of Health show that the plant’s owner, Chiron Corp., warned officials of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the British Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency on Sept. 13 that potential contamination problems remained unresolved at the plant, according to Alison Langley, a senior spokeswoman at the department. > The British account is at odds with statements by U.S. health officials that they were caught by surprise by the British regulatory agency’s decision this week to suspend vaccine manufacturing for three months at the Liverpool plant. It had been expected to provide 48 million doses of flu vaccine to the United States, about half of the U.S. supply this year. > Unlike the United States, health officials in Britain responded to the warning by making “plans by contacting other manufacturers,” Langley said. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/97 "2005-10-11T04:00:20Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > You can’t distribute what you don’t have; [Production Problems at Chiron:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18795-2004Oct8.html) Yeah, and? Bush is treating this like a hobby, not a job! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/98 "2005-10-11T04:32:20Z")
And the US anti-flu effort was fucked up months before there were _distribution_ problems. Apparently no one in government was tasked to ensure the stuff was produced. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/99 "2005-10-11T04:43:28Z")
> [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > Wow, a Bush defender. No, you ignorant sod, I don’t particularly like Bush. OTOH, I don’t particulary like seeing people accused of things they haven’t done. The rest of your posting shows that you don’t understand the simple concept that it is the asserter who’s supposed to prove the assertion. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946/100 "2005-10-11T04:47:35Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > And the US anti-flu effort was fucked up months before there were _distribution_ problems. Apparently no one in government was tasked to ensure the stuff was produced. Nobody seems to have done it this year either! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-already-planning-on-using-bird-flu-as-excuse-for-military-action-in-the-u-s/324946.md?page=6)