# Bush and Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711 "2001-01-12T15:47:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/1 "2001-01-12T15:47:24Z")
Has anyone heard this: [http://christianity.about.com/religion/christianity/library/weekly/aa01](http://christianity.about.com/religion/christianity/library/weekly/aa01) I thought Bush was trying to get into the White House. No it seems he’s got bigger aspirations than that, he’s trying to ensure himself a place in Heaven. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/2 "2001-01-12T16:16:47Z")
So will the head of Bushs new “office of faith-based programs” be addressed as “Ayatohlah” or the “God-czar” ? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/3 "2001-01-12T18:32:38Z")
Where in the world is the regular news media? I have heard Bush mention this proposal several times during the campaign, but I have not heard him (previously) mention it since the USSC gave him the election. So why does his post-election speech turn up _first_ on a Christian web site _opposing_ his proposed intermingling of church and state? ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/4 "2001-01-12T19:11:05Z")
Actually tomndeb I might have heard something on this a couple of week ago and not realized it. I was channel surfing and came upon CNN. Can’t remember the name of the program but they have guests, usually two, political types, with a call in line for Dems, Repubs, and Other. There was some guy on who had written a book about this subject, pro mingling of course. And the other guest was the head of some National Church something or other. He was an ordained Baptist minister. The right-wing author was talking about government funding for church based groups that do good works like feeding the hungry, shelters, drug counseling, etc. Anyway he didn’t see anything wrong with the government giving these groups money. Neither did the minister as long as people were not required to listen to a sermon or participate in prayer in order to recieve the service. Anyway, I popped in a little to late to get the entire program but I was impressed. Impressed that the minister had the good sense to see that the government had no business financing groups that make acceptance of their message a condition to recieving the service. The fruitcake author was simply that, a fruitcake. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/5 "2001-01-12T19:53:25Z")
That site had an interesting teaser for another article: > [@](#): > > Single? Wanna get hitched? > Single? Where are you heading after church? Drop by [ChristianCafe.com](http://ChristianCafe.com), a relaxed & friendly Cafe for 000’s of single Christians. Chat, profiles, detailed Search & a free trial! Coffee’s on! ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/6 "2001-01-12T20:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > \*\*The fruitcake author was simply that, a fruitcake. > > Needs2know \*\* The fruitcake author was probably Marvin Orlasky: [http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/elec10.htm](http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/elec10.htm) check the NY review of books website ([www.nybooks.com](http://www.nybooks.com)) for an article about him as well. In spite of the fact that the president-elect said yesterday that America should be “hopefuller,” I’m getting more and more frightened. JDM ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/7 "2001-01-12T20:15:37Z")
I think this may be a severe case of tempest-in-a-teapot syndrome. In a number of spheres, the interests of government and of religious institutions overlap. Funding already goes to charitable institutions with a religious origin, from local, state, and federal sources. There are extremely strict guidelines to avoid violating SOCAS in such cases. Example: I used to serve on the board of an outreach mission primarily supported by a coalition of local churches. Among its programs were a storefront ministry, a food pantry, and a GED tutoring program. Government surplus food went to the food pantry; the GED tutor’s salary was paid by a State Education Department grant. These had to be kept entirely separate from any part of the mission activities that involved any direct religious activity. The only permissible overlaps (which we happened not to use) were in management salary and “real estate” payments (rental, utilities, etc.) and in these cases documentation would have needed to be kept that the proportion of time/space chargeable to the government-funded program was at or beneath what it actually used. E.g., if the Executive Director spent 10% of her time dealing with the GED program, no more than 10% of her salary could be charged against that grant. With Bush’s record as a moderate in matters of this sort, this sounds to me like a unification of such programs (or liaisons to them) under a group that is a sop to the Religious Right, while continuing the same activities and guidelines (along with the possibly-controversial ones of funding the secular portion of religiously-based schooling and such, which are not apropos this thread IMHO). Bottom line: New name, variant structure, same activity. No big huhu. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/8 "2001-01-12T20:22:43Z")
That’s him…untidy hair, coke bottle glasses, baggy sweater and all. The minister had the guy sputtering on a couple of occasions. I think he was suprised that a minister wouldn’t side with him. None of the callers did either that I can remember correctly. (But my memory has begun to turn to mush, I’m taking a break from politics this weekend and watching a stupid comedy movie instead. I’m saturated. Anyone seen “A Night at the Roxbury”?) Oh yeah and Poly…this guy address that…he was outraged that some charity (name I can’t remember of course) had their funding yanked because it was discovered that they were giving a sermon to people before they could eat. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/9 "2001-01-12T21:01:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*I think this may be a severe case of tempest-in-a-teapot syndrome. > \*\* Well, when it’s the son of this daddy: [http://www.skeptictank.org/gbush.htm](http://www.skeptictank.org/gbush.htm) I think it’s a hell of a dangerous tempest [/QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Polycarp \*\*\* Bottom line: New name, variant structure, same activity. No big huhu. \*\* [/QUOTE] Bottom line: Not so new name (just add w), same structure, (Cheney, et.al), same activity. Scares me. JDM ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/10 "2001-01-12T22:35:18Z")
Bringing up the Sherman interview in Great Debates should prove “interesting.” 😉 While I am no admirer of W – I feel his supporters stole the election, with his connivance – I do think that he is not trying an end run around SOCAS here, but simply repackaging the idea that civic, educational, and charitable work can be done by religious groups and supported by the state when care is taken to keep the legitimate purposes for state aid separate from the sectarian purposes for which any state recognition would be a violation of SOCAS – with, as I noted above, some possible new controversial measures added in, which I would like to see addressed elsewhere, but which are clearly not the focus of this thread, the new Ministry of Silly Walks, er, Office of Faith-Based Programs. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-christianity/49711/11 "2001-01-12T22:49:34Z")
What I’m most alarmed by, **Poly** , is this quote of Bush’s (from the linked article): > [@](#): > > In every instance where my administration sees a responsibility to help people, we will look first to faith based organizations that have shown their ability to save and change lives. They will look first to faith based organizations. And I don’t think it’s unduly cynical to interpret the faith based organizations to which Bush refers as being overwhelmingly Christian. As it says in the article, > [@](#): > > The problem is that if tax payer money is diverted to support Christian organizations like this one, then the same funding must be provided for all. There are Muslim groups and Jewish groups doing equally impressive things. There are Hindus and Buddhists, Rastafarians and Wiccans who could > probably come up with some very creative proposals for spending the taxpayers’ money while attracting more members to their temples, mosques and covens. By saying he’ll help people _first_ through faith based organizations, our esteemed Player-King seems to be opening up a pretty dangerous can of worms. (I dunno…worms with teeth, I guess.)