# Bush and death **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683 "2004-10-28T15:57:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/1 "2004-10-28T15:57:28Z")
No name calling. No angry tirade. There are no words. 1. > [@](#): > > [Pro-life? Look at the fruits](http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=041013#5) > by Dr. Glen Harold Stassen > > I am a Christian ethicist, and trained in statistical analysis. I am consistently pro-life. My son David is one witness. For my family, “pro-life” is personal. My wife caught rubella in the eighth week of her pregnancy. We decided not to terminate, to love and raise our baby. David is legally blind and severely handicapped; he also is a blessing to us and to the world. > > I look at the fruits of political policies more than words. I analyzed the data on abortion during the George W. Bush presidency. There is no single source for this information - federal reports go only to 2000, and many states do not report - but I found enough data to identify trends. My findings are counterintuitive and disturbing. > > Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the nation’s abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4% decline during the 1990s. This was an average decrease of 1.7% per year, mostly during the latter part of the decade. (This data comes from Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher Institute’s studies). > > Enter George W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. **Instead, the opposite happened.** > … 1. > [@](#): > > [100,000 Excess Iraqi Deaths Since War - Study](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=8&u=/nm/20041028/ts_nm/iraq_deaths_dc) > > Deaths of Iraqis have soared by 100,000 since the start of the Iraq (news - web sites) war and many of the victims have been women and children, public health experts from the United States said on Thursday. > > “Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq,” researchers from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland said in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/2 "2004-10-28T16:03:15Z")
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/3 "2004-10-28T16:09:20Z")
This thread came up odd in preview (because it doesn’t show quoted stuff). It just said: > [@](#): > > No name calling. No angry tirade. There are no words. > > 1. > 2. I thought, what an odd pitting. When he meant “no words”, he had a no-words bulleted list. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/4 "2004-10-28T16:10:00Z")
You’re going to have to use some words if you want to make your point. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/5 "2004-10-28T16:13:35Z")
:rolleyes: Don’t you have anything better to do with your time? It must be exhausting to hate someone so much. To pour all this time and effort into something, when you are having no effect whatsoever. I feel sorry for you. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/6 "2004-10-28T16:16:36Z")
From the second linked article: > [@](#): > > He added that violent deaths were widespread and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. > > “Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children,” Roberts added. This comes as somewhat of a surprise to me considering my impression that coalition forces in general try and focus their efforts on surgical strikes against insurgent cells while at the same time insurgents randomly attack the general populace with car bombs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/7 "2004-10-28T16:27:53Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I feel sorry for you. That makes us even. Liberal, they have one thing in common. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/8 "2004-10-28T16:27:59Z")
Pardon me while I indulge in a fit of unseemly giggles. From your first cite: > [@](#): > > I found three states that have posted multi-year statistics through 2003, and abortion rates have risen in all three: Kentucky’s increased by 3.2% from 2000 to 2003. Michigan’s increased by 11.3% from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania’s increased by 1.9% from 1999 to 2002. I found 13 additional states that reported statistics for 2001 and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6% average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3% average decrease). So, he bases his conclusion on a sample size of sixteen states out of fifty, none of which have the largest number of women of child bearing age. Your source mentions: > [@](#): > > federal reports go only to 2000 I find his “analysis” somewhat less than compelling. Especially since the person you cite does not seem to realize who was President during 1999 and 2000. > [@Dr. Glen Harold Stassen](#): > > I am a Christian ethicist, and trained in statistical analysis. The first is possible. The second is problematic. If it is [this Stassen,](http://www.fuller.edu/provost/faculty/dbsearch/final_record.asp?id=81) you will note that he has no advanced degrees in statistical analysis. But you say you have no words. Allow me to suggest a few. “Moronic”, “ridiculous”, “half-baked, half-witted, and half-assed attempts at pseudo-intellectual raving by the dolts of the left” - see if any of those work for you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/9 "2004-10-28T16:29:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Only for case 1. Case 2 is firmly bellum, ergo hoc. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/10 "2004-10-28T16:30:48Z")
Bush may not be very good at stopping abortion, but he’s apparently even more of a failure when it comes to preventing cloning. > **[The fake troops in Bush's new ad](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2004/10/28/65729/-)** > > (From the diaries -- kos) > Appropriately titled "Whatever It Takes", the new BC04 ad uses Bush's convention acceptance speech, stirring music, and images of dedicated troops and families in the hea... ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/11 "2004-10-28T16:33:55Z")
**Shodan** , is there any criticism of Bush and his policies that you do not dismiss _a priori_? You never seem to debate the merits of the issue, just to dismiss every single anti-Bush post as if the very notion of the president being in error is just too ludicrous to contemplate. Is there, in truth, no legitimate way to indicate that Bush is fallible? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/12 "2004-10-28T16:37:12Z")
Why DO federal reports end in 2000 anyway? And how about this: George Bush touts his pro-life stance as a reason we should re-elect him. What evidence can he or his supporters present to demonstrate his success in combatting abortion? How successful has his abstinence-only focus been in reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies? How successful have his economic and social programs been in convincing expectant mothers that they will be able to support children? What has he gotten accomplished in terms of making abortion harder to get and less common? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/13 "2004-10-28T16:54:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But you say you have no words. Allow me to suggest a few. > > “Moronic”, “ridiculous”, “half-baked, half-witted, and half-assed attempts at pseudo-intellectual raving by the dolts of the left” - see if any of those work for you. If it makes you feel better about your guy… Did you giggle about the 100,000 Iraqis too? 'Cause you can call me more names if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/14 "2004-10-28T17:01:59Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Liberal, they have one thing in common. Only one thing? I doubt it. Unless you can show a causal relationship, showing a correlating relationship is absolutely meaningless. _ **Absolutely** _. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/15 "2004-10-28T17:09:18Z")
FWIW **Shodan** , I am trained in statistical analysis, but I have no advanced degree in it. I am also trained in systems administration, library systems management, accounting, and homebrewing. I don’t have advanced degrees in those things either. I’m not sure that’s a very sound argument. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/16 "2004-10-28T17:09:34Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > the very notion of the president being in error is just too ludicrous to contemplate. [What’s so strange about that?](http://www.truthandhope.org/no_mistakes.mov) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/17 "2004-10-28T17:27:32Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Did you giggle about the 100,000 Iraqis too? No, just you. **gobear** - I didn’t dismiss it _a priori_. I even read the cite, and picked it apart to the extent my interest lasted. Which, I grant you, wasn’t far. **lieu** picked up on something else that makes this “analysis” suspect as well. > [@](#): > > Is there, in truth, no legitimate way to indicate that Bush is fallible? Sure there is. But this ain’t it. Neither is 90% of the rest of the bullshit you people sling around so freely. You’re too used to preaching to the choir. Your positions are not really as unassailable as you have led yourselves to believe by patting each other on the back and flaming anyone who dares to dissent from the “Bush is the Great Satan” meme which is all that most political threads ever express. I know it would be more comforting if you could believe that anyone who disagrees with you has a closed mind. But that isn’t true, and screaming doesn’t make it true. Sometimes you’re right. Sometimes I’m right. Most of the time, it cannot be established who is right. The Presidency of George Bush is one of those "most of the time"s. This thread is horseshit, no better than any of the crap **Reeder** or the rest of the mindless primitives infesting the Democratic party and the Kerry campaign would pull out of their ass. The notion that you apparently thought I should find it compelling says volumes more about you than about me. Most politics is bullshit. Most of the politics on the SDMB is leftist. Therefore, most of the politics on the SDMB is leftist bullshit. Like this. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/18 "2004-10-28T17:37:06Z")
**Equipose** , please stop making me agree with **Shodan.** For that matter, please just stop. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/19 "2004-10-28T17:53:47Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Why DO federal reports end in 2000 anyway? > > And how about this: George Bush touts his pro-life stance as a reason we should re-elect him. What evidence can he or his supporters present to demonstrate his success in combatting abortion? How successful has his abstinence-only focus been in reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies? How successful have his economic and social programs been in convincing expectant mothers that they will be able to support children? What has he gotten accomplished in terms of making abortion harder to get and less common? And also why any Supreme Court nominees would have any affect, seeing as 7 of the 9 current justices were Republican appointees. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683/20 "2004-10-28T17:59:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For that matter, please just stop. No. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-and-death/271683.md?page=2)