# Bush apologizing on Arab TV. Aftermath. Why not Al-Jazeera ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719 "2004-05-05T21:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/21 "2004-05-06T20:23:20Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > Now he _has_ said [sorry!](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3691823.stm) At last ! Now let’s see Rummy do it ! :dubious: I didn’t know these fotos were mid-2003 ! Wow… that long ?! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/22 "2004-05-06T20:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Bush’s Honor and Pride of not apologizing worth the lives of a few more dead soldiers ? … What do you expect from Bush after all he doesn’t remember making any mistakes. So, now that you’ve made a mistake, will you apologize? Your tirade came hours after his apology. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/23 "2004-05-06T20:57:37Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > So, now that you’ve made a mistake, will you apologize? Your tirade came hours after his apology. ``` Apology on Arab TV ? nope... ``` ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/24 "2004-05-06T21:06:35Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > So, now that you’ve made a mistake, will you apologize? Your tirade came hours after his apology. Does the expression “a day late and a dollar short” ring any sort of bell? The “golden moment” is somewhat tarnished, don’t you think, by a certain lack of shall we say, spontaneity? And, curiously, this dolt still could not wrench his arrogant persona into a real apology, but only the report that he had given one, out of sighjt of the cameras intrusive eye… What a putz we have for president… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/25 "2004-05-06T21:38:05Z")
As if enduring a chief magistrate with such power were not itself an onorous burden, you would have him be spontaneous to boot? Thank you, no. I’d rather that politicians do their politicking the old fashioned way — waste hours in pointless meetings and say meaningless things. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/26 "2004-05-06T21:58:49Z")
hmmm > [@](#): > > [http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/05/06/bush\_apology/index.html](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/05/06/bush_apology/index.html) > > A day after he stopped short of apologizing, Bush told Jordan’s King Abdullah II: "I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families. > > “I told him I was as equally sorry that people seeing those pictures didn’t understand the true nature and heart of America,” Bush said, standing in the Rose Garden alongside Abdullah. Is this an apology? When I say “Bob, I’m deeply sorry for the stroke your mom had” am I apologizing for giving her a stroke? The first quote gives the soundbite impression of an apology, but in context of the second quote, it doesn’t necessarily seem like an apology at all. Certainly there is no claim of American responsibility: indeed, there is an attempt to distance America from the acts. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/27 "2004-05-06T22:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > “I told him I was as equally sorry that people seeing those pictures didn’t understand the true nature and heart of America,” Bush said, standing in the Rose Garden alongside Abdullah. What good is a noble heart if you do really nasty things to other people? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/28 "2004-05-06T23:49:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought “Great, he’s coming over really well, actually looks like a world leader for once, sounds sincere - as if he understands the words he’s saying, and means them, this might do some good” He did a pretty good job on a lot of other issues. The problem, as I said, is that he did a far better job in terms of winning this election than he did in trying to win over the Iraqis and the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/29 "2004-05-07T00:22:23Z")
Holy unsupported statements Batman. \*\* Aldebaran \*\* I want cites specifically for the following: > [@](#): > > the things your are so “shocked” about are going on since months and were reported already months ago > [@](#): > > Amnesty reported such crimes since months > [@](#): > > the Red Cross was banned from that Lawsless US Prison > [@](#): > > US army demands during the siege of Falluja was that Al Jazeera stopped broadcasting from inside the town about the bloodshed caused by the US (when they were the only media left inside the town). > [@](#): > > bloodshed caused by the US I want a cite that says that the U.S. started the bloodshed in this instance. I know that we ultimately started the violence by invading but we have ceased to have a desire for more. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/30 "2004-05-07T00:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I want a cite that says that the U.S. started the bloodshed in this instance. I know that we ultimately started the violence by invading but we have ceased to have a desire for more. Are you saying the US doesn’t want to kill Iraqi’s any more? I bet that comes as a surprise to both the Iraqi’s and the American forces. As for the apology…He apologized to the King of Jordan. I bet that makes all those Jordanians they tortured feel better. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/31 "2004-05-07T00:39:06Z")
> [@](#): > > the things your are so “shocked” about are going on since months and were reported already months ago Here’s a report from Jan about Myers being briefed on some of the instances. It’s quite true that this is month’s old news, and the original whistleblower first started complaining about the abuse last year [http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sprj.nirq.abuse/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sprj.nirq.abuse/index.html) > [@](#): > > Amnesty reported such crimes since months This is almost a no brainer, since Amnesty’s job is to never shut up about claims of abuse anywhere and everywhere, whether true or not. But here is a summary of what they’ve been saying pretty much since before the invasion, inlcuding about the infamous prison: [http://news.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140062004](http://news.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140062004) > [@](#): > > the Red Cross was banned from that Lawsless US Prison This one is hyperbole plain and simple, but it’s pretty much undisputed at this point that the US either postponed required RC visits as well as completely hiding some prisoners’ existence from the Red Cross, and it’s done so consistently in many situations. From the Taguba Report: “The Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib called these detainees “ghost detainees.” On at least one occasion, the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib held a handful of “ghost detainees” (6-8) for OGAs that they moved around within the facility to hide them from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) survey team. This maneuver was deceptive, contrary to Army Doctrine, and in violation of international law. (Annex 53)” [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/) > [@](#): > > US army demands during the siege of Falluja was that Al Jazeera stopped broadcasting from inside the town about the bloodshed caused by the US (when they were the only media left inside the town). A bit of an exgerration (since some of the stories may have been legitimately untrue or anti-US), but essentially true. > **[US makes al-Jazeera complaint](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/28/iraq.iraqandthemedia)** > > 8am: Relations between Washington and Arab satellite news channel al-Jazeera have plunged to a new low after US secretary of state Colin Powell made an official complaint to the Qatar government. By Lisa O'Carroll. > [@](#): > > bloodshed caused by the US I don’t think even the US disputes that there have been heavy civilian losses in the engagements, but of course that’s what happens in battles with embedded insurgents and when you bomb cities with people living in them. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/32 "2004-05-07T00:40:59Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Are you saying the US doesn’t want to kill Iraqi’s any more? Yes we have done what we wanted/had to do and now we want to get out as soon as possible. Do you think we want to stay there killing Iraqis and having Americans die any longer than nessecary? Hey and look another statement that needs a cite > [@](#): > > As for the apology…He apologized to the King of Jordan. I bet that makes all those Jordanians they tortured feel better. And why don’t you take your smug little rolleyes and cram them where the sun don’t shine. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/33 "2004-05-07T00:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – President Bush on Thursday said he told visiting King Abdullah II of Jordan that he is “sorry for the humiliation suffered” by Iraqi prisoners at the hands of U.S. troops in Iraq. [http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/06/iraq.abuse.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/06/iraq.abuse.main/index.html) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/34 "2004-05-07T00:46:56Z")
And just FYI… it’s “necessary” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/35 "2004-05-07T01:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s a report from Jan about Myers being briefed on some of the instances. It’s quite true that this is month’s old news, and the original whistleblower first started complaining about the abuse last year > [http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sp...buse/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sp...buse/index.html) As far as I can tell that article refers only to unconfirmed allegations of soldiers taking pictures with Iraqi prisoners. While it is a breach of the Geneva convention its a far cry from the current round of abuses. Its a bit of a stretch to say that the Army demanded Al Jazera to stop broadcasting in Falluja about civilian deaths. The main complaint is that Al Jazera has been allegedly making up stories about civilian abuse and acting as a mouth piece for Osama Bin Laden. It does appear that AI has been reporting abuses and I thank you for the cite. Swing and a miss \*\* Reeder \*\*. That cite refers to Bush apologizing for Iraqi prisoners being tortured and mentions nothing about Bush apologizing for Jordanians being tortured. I noticed that you failed to respond to my assertion that we really don’t want to keep killing Iraqis. I patiently await your reasoning behind your apparent belief that we want to kill more Iraqis. I also invite you to your [latest pitting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4833855#post4833855) ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/36 "2004-05-07T01:07:28Z")
Is that a **whooosh** I hear? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/37 "2004-05-07T01:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > As far as I can tell that article refers only to **unconfirmed** allegations of soldiers taking pictures with Iraqi prisoners. While it is a breach of the Geneva convention its a far cry from the current round of abuses. I realized the stupidity of saying that the allegations were unconfirmed about 3 minutes too late :smack:. I stand by the rest of the statement and my post. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/38 "2004-05-07T01:14:40Z")
> [@treis](#): > > As far as I can tell that article refers only to unconfirmed allegations of soldiers taking pictures with Iraqi prisoners. While it is a breach of the Geneva convention its a far cry from the current round of abuses. Look, the plain fact is that there was an official investigation that started months ago, and concluded in February. And before that, there were indeed allegations that now, in retrospect, turned out to be true. > [@](#): > > Its a bit of a stretch to say that the Army demanded Al Jazera to stop broadcasting in Falluja about civilian deaths. Didn’t I say that it was overplayed? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/39 "2004-05-07T01:33:02Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Is that a **whooosh** I hear? Possibly. Did you mean that we tortured Jordanians and that apologizing to them doesn’t make them feel any better. Or did you mean that we didn’t torture any Jordanians so Bush should be apologizing to the Iraqi head of state instead. If it is indeed the second then I indeed was whooshed and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719/40 "2004-05-07T01:37:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Possibly. Did you mean that we tortured Jordanians and that apologizing to them doesn’t make them feel any better. **Or did you mean that we didn’t torture any Jordanians so Bush should be apologizing to the Iraqi head of state instead. If it is indeed the second then I indeed was whooshed and apologize**. Exactly. Almost anyway. He should have apologized to the Iraqi people during his televised interview. Apology accepted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-apologizing-on-arab-tv-aftermath-why-not-al-jazeera/243719.md?page=3)