# Bush approval rating continues to fall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838 "2003-01-15T22:22:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/21 "2003-01-16T03:52:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **Who knows? Maybe just racheting up the pressure a point or two. At least he didnt do anything stupid like crank up the war machine.** Other then that half-hearted Operation Desert Fox thing, you meant to say? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/22 "2003-01-16T03:58:27Z")
**Quo** , There is a difference between calling for a regime change and threatening an invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/23 "2003-01-16T04:03:28Z")
I mean **Age** not Quo. I don’t know what the hell I was thinking… ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/24 "2003-01-16T04:28:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Americans told the pollsters at CNN/USA Today that they regard Mr. Bush as a strong and decisive leader (76%) who is willing to make hard decisions (83%) and who has a vision for the country’s future (68%). \*\* Strong and decisive… yep I would agree. Willing to make hard decisions… ditto Vision for the country’s future… also true But, don’t these apply to any leader taking the hard line? Like say Stalin? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/25 "2003-01-16T04:38:04Z")
What “hard decision” has Junior ever made? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/26 "2003-01-16T04:39:05Z")
> [@](#): > > But, don’t these apply to any leader taking the hard line? Like say Stalin? Yep. December’s comment is misleading. Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot could aptly have been described as “Strong and Decisive” leaders who were willing to make hard decisions and had a vision for their country’s future! But that didn’t make them GOOD leaders. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/27 "2003-01-16T04:51:16Z")
[http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm](http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm) Not as rosy as **december** makes it out to be, it would seem. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/28 "2003-01-16T05:19:29Z")
I think the Dems. are missing out on a potential vulnerability in not arguing more strenuously that the government is curtailing civil, constitutional, and personal rights. I noticed Lieberman going right of Gdubya on Korea and Edwards right of him on the War on Terror (pretend like that has a trademark symbol, thanks). I’m not sure that’s smart. But, I don’t think that all the foreign policy crises are somehow cooked up by Pres. Bush. In 1994 or 1995 I wrote a letter to the editor in response to an editorial which claimed that the world had entered a peaceful era where everyone just wanted to make money. Um, that may be true on some level, but there are real problems with allowing Iraq and North Korea to develop large stockpiles of nukes. Not wanting to get into it about who has what. I concede that nobody has presented compelling - smoking reactor type - evidence that Iraq is pursuing nuclear weapons, yet. Anyway, in the letter I named Iraq and North Korea as potential places war could flare up anytime. Duh, it has before. I also mentioned Taiwan and China. I hope they all turn out to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/29 "2003-01-16T06:11:03Z")
**What “hard decision” has Junior ever made?** You know, I find it hard to understand how anyone with even a passing familiarity with the events of the last two years could make sure a ridiculous statement. Bush has had to make more hard decisions than any president since Reagan, and he’s only been in office for two years. The guy gets notified that his country is under attack while talking to a bunch of kids. Within an hour he has had to give an order to shoot down an American civilian airliner. And that was just the start of a long series of amazingly difficult things he’s had to do, such as ordering the invasion of a sovereign country, define the terms of the war on terror, face down Saddam, and now having to deal with what is rapidly becoming the biggest crisis in North Korea since the Korean War. Nope, no hard decisions there. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/30 "2003-01-16T06:13:23Z")
SUCH a ridiculous statement. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/31 "2003-01-16T06:15:23Z")
Definitely, before the attack, his approval ratings were very average, OK but nothing special. Then after the attack, it soared, obviously, because people are patriotic. But once they saw how he was directing the war effort and curtailing civil liberties, his numbers plummeted. A good president would have taken this a sign that he was on the wrong road and would have changed or softened his prosecution of the war. I mean, it was one thing to go after the guys who directly attacked us, but people weren’t crazy about attacking a second country unprovoked. It’s no wonder that he lost the mid-term elections, and he was lucky to squeak his way to another term. Oh, wait, I was referring to FDR. Sorry. > **[Center for Defense Information](https://www.pogo.org/center-for-defense-information/)** > > The Center for Defense Information at POGO aims to secure far more effective and ethical military forces at significantly lower cost. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/32 "2003-01-16T07:28:15Z")
Interesting article **furt**. But, I’m inclined to believe the comparison between Bush Jr. and FDR stops at the polls. I can agree with the author that, “The stability of public opinion when unusual conditions repeat themselves is worth examining and may continue to prove awesome.” I don’t find it unreasonable that our nation would respond to war in '01 much in the way it did in '41. But at the end of the day FDR is the greatest president of the 20th century and Bush Jr. is the dimwitted spawn of one of the 20th’s least distinguished leaders. A man who’s great accomplishment was gaining massive approval for winning a sham of a war, only to lose it in the face of a poor economy. I didn’t like the original and the sequel is even worse. If this country ever elects Jeb to the highest office I’m going to assume apocalypse is nigh. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/33 "2003-01-16T08:34:28Z")
But the point is that in 1942, calling FDR the greatest president of the century would have gotten you laughed out of the room by most people, certainly by Republicans. I daresay they may well have described him as “dimwitted” or similar pejoratives. They obviously were wrong, and the whole things seems to me to speak to the dangers of exactly the kind of premature judgement you are making. In '42 the war was going badly, and there were concerns about the effect of war on civil liberties. FDR decided to lead, approval polls be damned. I have no idea how history will judge GWB, and frankly, neither do you, despite your claim to certain knowledge about “the end of the day.” But history suggests that one thing he should NOT do is give a rodent’s rear about his approval ratings. ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/34 "2003-01-16T14:36:08Z")
Bush’s first and only term is near the halfway point. He had the unique opportunity to lead a united people and he squandered it. First of all- the so-called “tough” decisions. Ordering the downing of a hijacked plane is a no-brainer. Choice A, you shoot it down and everyone on board dies. Choice B, you let it fly into a target, everyone on board dies plus hundreds on the ground plus millions in property damage. Gee- what to do, what to do??? Invading Afghanistan was easy- they were harboring the terrorists. Another no-brainer. Facing down Saddam? First he needs to provide evidence that Saddam poses a threat. Let the inspectors do their work. North Korea is a legitimate challenge, let’s see how this pans out to see if he made any right decisions here. After 9/11, he had nearly unanimous support for going after the terrorists. Unfortunately, they slipped through his fingers. The blunders were in the field, but as commander in chief he’s the fall guy. They had Osama surrounded, but stupidly allowed the Afghans to control some of the exits. Let’s see- we’re trying to contain desperate men who have scads of cash, let’s have their exit guarded by poor locals with questionable loyalty. No question the campaign did some good, ridding Afghanistan of the Taliban was a humanitarian act. But they didn’t finish the deal. Bush inherited a budget surplus courtesy of the Clinton-Gore administration. Can’t have a surplus, can we? Gotta raid the treasury and fatten the wallets of the rich, and if you’re against it, you’re unpatriotic. Apparently small deficits aren’t big enough, gotta go ahead and remove taxes on dividends. Squander the surplus and dive deep into debt- that’s the Bush legacy. Another example of squandered opportunity was when he started a new federal department of homeland security. He wasted months getting this off the ground in his insistence that the employees of this new department not have civil service protection. He also squandered political capital in his ill-advised remark that Democrats who opposed him on this matter did not care about the security of the country. Now his ratings are going down. This is to be expected, the rah-rah patriotic fervor of the post 9/11 days is fading and the economy isn’t perking up in spite of throwing money at the rich. The people are beginning to see that not only does the emperor not have any clothes, he isn’t especially well-endowed. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/35 "2003-01-16T16:12:15Z")
Of course, the Bush numbers are higher than they were for Reagan, Clinton, or Carter at this point in their presidencies. [Cite.](http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/politics/4942384.htm) Don’t let that interfere with your little wishful-thinking fest. Almost three-fourths of the respondents to the poll saw Bush as “honest”. Sort of refreshing to have a President whose last name can be used in the same sentence as the word “honest” without giggling, isn’t it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/36 "2003-01-16T16:42:11Z")
In what way does anyone think Bush is honest? What, he didn’t lie about a blowjob? I am shocked that anyone taking a hard objective look at how he and his administration have conducted themselves would call them anything but political. And being political animals is often in conflict with the tenets of honesty. A poll conducted and discussed on “Hardball” yesterday showed that more than 50% of Americans believe 9/11 was executed by Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/37 "2003-01-16T16:43:41Z")
**Shodan** , I found the Harry Potter thing, and the Mariucci thing, and the Holmgren thing, and the Davis budget crunch thing, and the thing about reviving the “Daisy” anti-war ads (interesting), but I didn’t find the Bush comparison re: approval numbers via your cite. Where should I look? By the way, it’s also unfortunate to have a President who can’t use any word in a sentence without somebody giggling. Isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/38 "2003-01-16T16:50:10Z")
Of course, neither Reagan, Clinton nor Carter had that sharp spike in the middle of their terms and then had a continual slide. Interesting to note that you left out Bush I…could it be because that was the closest approximation to this situation? And we all know how that turned out. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/39 "2003-01-16T16:54:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Diogenes the Cynic:_ > **Quo** , There is a difference between calling for a regime change and threatening an invasion. That’s true. But presumably, the “sensible explanations” for calling for regime change would also be “sensible explanations” for trying to bring about regime change. > [@](#): > > _Diogenes the Cynic:_ > I mean **Age** not **Quo**. I don’t know what the hell I was thinking… Heck, you can call me Flippy if you want. As long as you’re not using 4-letter words to describe me, then I’m happy. (Needless to say, I’m not often happy). > [@](#): > > _MSU 1978:_ > The people are beginning to see that not only does the emperor not have any clothes, he isn’t especially well-endowed. **Shodan** , you were saying something about a wishful-thinking fest? I wonder what **MSU 1978** has been wishfully thinking about. ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838/40 "2003-01-16T17:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > **Shodan** , you were saying something about a wishful-thinking fest? I wonder what **MSU 1978** has been wishfully thinking about. You may rest assured it _wasn’t_ seeing dubya in the buff! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-approval-rating-continues-to-fall/148838.md?page=3)