# Bush/Cheney divide? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139 "2005-11-09T00:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/1 "2005-11-09T00:33:33Z")
Did I hear that Bush has become disappointed in Cheney? That Bush is upset at Cheney because of the way the war in Iraq is going? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/2 "2005-11-09T00:39:11Z")
Did you? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/3 "2005-11-09T00:43:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Did you? I think I did. But did anyone else? I have this image of a petulent President complaining to Cheney: ‘But… But… But, you said it was gonna be _easy!_ What about what you told me about Santa? And the Easter Bunny? _snuffle_ They’re still _real_, right?’ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/4 "2005-11-09T01:07:51Z")
Wheres **Reeder** when you need him? He is probably all over this shizat, assuming of course the voices haven’t returned to **Johnny L.A.**'s head. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/5 "2005-11-09T01:10:27Z")
Chris Matthews was talking about this on \*Hardball \* tonight, so there is some speculation to this effect. Short of Bush announcing, “I’m disappointed in Dick Cheney”, I doubt we will ever know for sure. There are good reasons to suspect it however. Cheney clings to talking points long after they have been thoroughly debunked (Saddam’s nukes, 9/11 link to Saddam), and the exemption of the CIA from anti-torture laws is really hard to spin into anything defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/6 "2005-11-09T01:15:03Z")
[Dubya-Cheney ties Frayed by Scandal](http://nydailynews.com/front/story/363529p-309592c.html) NY Daily News. [Dick Cheney and George W. Bush don’t like each other anymore.](http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002404.html) Attywood. Ask your Magic Eight Ball if these tea leave readers are right. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/7 "2005-11-09T01:26:04Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Dubya-Cheney ties Frayed by Scandal](http://nydailynews.com/front/story/363529p-309592c.html) NY Daily News. > [Dick Cheney and George W. Bush don’t like each other anymore.](http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002404.html) Attywood. Interesting reading. Thanks. (Geez, you get engrossed in a couple of books and you start missing stuff! Anything else happen recently that I should know about?) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/8 "2005-11-09T01:50:10Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Dubya-Cheney ties Frayed by Scandal](http://nydailynews.com/front/story/363529p-309592c.html) NY Daily News. > [Dick Cheney and George W. Bush don’t like each other anymore.](http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002404.html) Attywood. > > Ask your Magic Eight Ball if these tea leave readers are right. A comment made in the second link suggests that Cheney’s legs or general health might be worse then he’d like to admit, thus the lower public profile. Occam’s razor and all, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/9 "2005-11-09T01:55:13Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Interesting reading. Thanks. > > (Geez, you get engrossed in a couple of books and you start missing stuff! Anything else happen recently that I should know about?) Did you hear we nuked Calgary? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/10 "2005-11-09T01:59:28Z")
There was an article today (I think it was on Drudge) talking about how Chaney is the most power VP in our history. It was a bit of an eye opener (if true) how much raw power the many actually controls…and how much he had to do with US foreign policy during the last 5 years. If I get out of this meeting sometime before midnight I’ll see if I can find the article if anyone is interested. As far as the OP goes I’ve heard that there is some level of strain between Bush and Chaney lately, but nothing was solid as far as evidence goes. All rumor type things. -XT ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/11 "2005-11-09T02:01:16Z")
I think it was also well noticed among the pundits here that Bush let it be known that Cheney wasn’t at all involved in the Miers nomination, and that he had merely sent Andrew Card over to tell him shortly before the announcement. I didn’t catch it if there was any mention of Cheney and the Alito nomination in the same sentence anywhere until I just wrote this one. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/12 "2005-11-09T02:20:18Z")
I hear Bush got all up in Cheney’s shit during study hall. He was all like, “Dude. I know you set me up with the wrong answers on the MidEast test.” And Cheney was like, “STFU, bitch. You wouldn’t be on honor role without me.” Then Scalia was like, “Doods, chill. Handle this shit after school.” And Bush was like “No way! I’m tired of taking his fucking shit!” Then Mr. Rove came over all Nazi and shit and said, “All three of you, detention!” And Bush was like, “Fuck you, turd blossom!” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/13 "2005-11-09T03:54:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Did you hear we nuked Calgary? Come on. If you’re gonna lie, at least make it believable. Why would we nuke a city in Alberta? Now nuking Montreal, _that’s_ believable. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/14 "2005-11-09T05:06:49Z")
Word among the cognoscenti in Washington is that Cheney is thinking of asking for Bush’s resignation. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/15 "2005-11-09T05:12:48Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > I hear Bush got all up in Cheney’s shit during study hall. He was all like, “Dude. I know you set me up with the wrong answers on the MidEast test.” And Cheney was like, “STFU, bitch. You wouldn’t be on honor role without me.” Then Scalia was like, “Doods, chill. Handle this shit after school.” And Bush was like “No way! I’m tired of taking his fucking shit!” Then Mr. Rove came over all Nazi and shit and said, “All three of you, detention!” And Bush was like, “Fuck you, turd blossom!” You hear Scooter got expelled? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/16 "2005-11-09T05:54:10Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > I hear Bush got all up in Cheney’s shit during study hall. He was all like, “Dude. I know you set me up with the wrong answers on the MidEast test.” And Cheney was like, “STFU, bitch. You wouldn’t be on honor role without me.” Then Scalia was like, “Doods, chill. Handle this shit after school.” And Bush was like “No way! I’m tired of taking his fucking shit!” Then Mr. Rove came over all Nazi and shit and said, “All three of you, detention!” And Bush was like, “Fuck you, turd blossom!” Is Sean Penn going to play Bush in the movie? That would be, like, so cool! Especially if he plays him like a cross between Jeff Spicoli and the coked-out lawyer he played in _Carlito’s Way_. “This is U.S. History, I see the globe right there.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/17 "2005-11-09T06:21:50Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > (Geez, you get engrossed in a couple of books and you start missing stuff! Anything else happen recently that I should know about?) There’s been something happening with some guy named Terrell, but it was such a short and fleeting story that i missed the substance of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/18 "2005-11-09T12:46:53Z")
There have been rumors that the overall White House atmosphere has just been generally tense lately: > [@](#): > > [October 11](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7509.shtml): > President George W. Bush’s temper tantrums are on the rise with White House insiders reporting increasing tongue-lashing of staffers, obscenity-filled outbursts and a leader driven to the edge by what he sees as party disloyalty and a country that no longer trusts him. > > Conservative backlash over his latest Supreme Court nominee may, in fact, have pushed the President over the edge. > > “He’s out of control,” one White House aide says privately. “There’s no other way to put it. His anger spills over in meetings. He berates anyone who brings him bad news but there’s not a lot of good news we can bring the President right now. He calls other Republicans ‘motherfucking traitors’ and it is becoming more and more of a challenge to keep that anger from showing in public.” […] > > But is this something new? Consider this from Andrew Stephans of The Observer in London: > > “The 43rd US President has always had a much-publicized knack for mangled syntax, but now George Bush often searches an agonizingly long time, sometimes in vain, for the right words. His mind simply blanks out at crucial times. He is prone, I am told, to foul-mouthed temper tantrums in the White House. His handlers now rarely allow him to speak an unscripted word in public.” > [@](#): > > [November 7](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7606.shtml): > An uncivil war rages inside the walls of the West Wing of the White House […] > > On one side are the dwindling numbers of die-hard loyalists to President George W. Bush, those who support his actions and decisions without question and remain committed to both Bush and scandal-scarred political advisor Karl Rove. > > On the other side are the increasing numbers of those who say Rove must go and who worry about the President’s declining mental state and his ability to restore credibilitywith Congress, our foreign allies and the American people. > > The war erupted into full-blown shout fests at Camp David this past weekend where decorum broke down in staff meetings and longtime aides threatened to quit unless Rove goes. Insiders say Chief of Staff Andrew Card now leads the anti-Rove legions and has told Bush that he wants out of the high-pressure job. > > White House staff members say the White House is “like a wartime bunker” where shell-shocked aides hide from those who disagree with their actions and office pools speculate on how long certain senior aides will last. > > Bush, whose obscenity-laced temper tantrums increase with each new setback and scandal, abruptly ended one Camp David meeting by telling everyone in the room to “go fuck yourselves” before he stalked out of the room. > > Senior aides describe Bush as increasingly “edgy” or “nervous” or “unfocused.” They say the President goes from apparent coherent thought one moment to aimless rambles about political enemies and those who are “out to get me.” > > "It’s worse than the days when Ronald Reagan’s Alzheimer’s began setting in,” one longtime GOP operative told me privately this week. “You don’t know if he’s going to be coherent from one moment to the next. What scares me is if he lapses into one of those fogs during a public appearance.” On the one hand, political “insider” gossip is worth pretty much nothing in terms of verifiable facts. On the other hand, if true, this would help explain why Cheney is either distancing himself or being kept at arm’s length. (“Office pools speculate on how long senior aides will last”? As in, they’re betting on it? Dude, that is not a sign of good employee morale.) ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/19 "2005-11-09T13:25:40Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > That Bush is upset at Cheney because of the way the war in Iraq is going? I would guess there isn’t anything that’s come out of the VP’s office lately that Bush isn’t rightly pissed about. Cheney’s dragging the whole show down. Then again it’s Bush’s own fault for ceding so much power to Cheney in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/20 "2005-11-09T14:35:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There have been rumors that the overall White House atmosphere has just been generally tense lately: > > On the one hand, political “insider” gossip is worth pretty much nothing in terms of verifiable facts. On the other hand, if true, this would help explain why Cheney is either distancing himself or being kept at arm’s length. > > (“Office pools speculate on how long senior aides will last”? As in, they’re betting on it? Dude, that is not a sign of good employee morale.) Sounds to me like the Cheney camp is setting Bush up for a mental competence ouster. This will put him in coflict with the Bush Crime Family. Might be some exciting news coming out of the White House if this shit keeps up. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139.md?page=2)