# Bush/Cheney divide? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139 "2005-11-09T00:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/21 "2005-11-09T14:43:22Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Sounds to me like the Cheney camp is setting Bush up for a mental competence ouster. This will put him in coflict with the Bush Crime Family. Might be some exciting news coming out of the White House if this shit keeps up. Bush being declared incompetent and removed from office? Yeah, that just might make the papers. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/22 "2005-11-09T14:52:45Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Sounds to me like the Cheney camp is setting Bush up for a mental competence ouster. This will put him in coflict with the Bush Crime Family. Might be some exciting news coming out of the White House if this shit keeps up. Having watched that horrifying clip of Bush stumbling through the “unrehearsed” chat with the soldiers in Iraq, I gotta say the Cheneyites have reason to think they could pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/23 "2005-11-09T15:13:28Z")
It’s a pretty tough scenario to imagine, though. President Dick “Nineteen Percent” Cheney? The guy with lower public approval ratings than Nixon had when he resigned in disgrace? How the hell could President Cheney even hope to govern the country? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/24 "2005-11-09T15:19:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s a pretty tough scenario to imagine, though. President Dick “Nineteen Percent” Cheney? The guy with lower public approval ratings than Nixon had when he resigned in disgrace? How the hell could President Cheney even hope to govern the country? You know those “secret CIA prison camps”… maybe they’re not all in Eastern Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/25 "2005-11-09T15:33:04Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > You know those “secret CIA prison camps”… maybe they’re not all in Eastern Europe. They’re not. There’s one in Gitmo. As John Stewart put it on the Daily Show last night: “Even Gitmo has a … Gitmo. And the worst part of that is … you KNOW Gitmo’s Gitmo has a Gitmo!” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/26 "2005-11-09T15:49:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There have been rumors that the overall White House atmosphere has just been generally tense lately: > > On the one hand, political “insider” gossip is worth pretty much nothing in terms of verifiable facts. On the other hand, if true, this would help explain why Cheney is either distancing himself or being kept at arm’s length. > > (“Office pools speculate on how long senior aides will last”? As in, they’re betting on it? Dude, that is not a sign of good employee morale.) Thanks for the post. If half of that is true, then I couldn’t be happier. All of it being true would be orgasmic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/27 "2005-11-09T15:59:59Z")
I’d be happier by far if Bush and Cheney would just start doing their damn jobs. A melted-down administration is as bad for the country as the irresponsible one we’ve had for 5 years. We don’t get to replace them until 2008 - meanwhile, the damage is going to continue and increase, or else we’ll have to go through an impeachment/resignation drama with both of them, consuming a year or more by itself, followed by a caretaker Hastert administration with little real support of its own. No, the only thing I’m happy to see is that so many of my fellow citizens are awakening from Terrorist Hypnosis and are ready to take on more of their required responsibility for our government themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/28 "2005-11-09T16:04:23Z")
Be careful what you wish for, fellow lib Dem! On the one hand, I’m not sorry if the Administration has to face up to some of the negative consequences of its bad decisions. On the other hand, I am **not** comfortable with the prospect of the Commander-in-Chief and Chief Exec being “out of control” and mentally “blanking out at crucial times” and paranoid and unable to contain his rage, while the more “reality-based” members of his administration scuttle for the escape hatch. And “not comfortable” is putting it pretty fucking mildly. No, please, let’s **not** hope that all of this is literally true or that it foreshadows a total meltdown of the Administration. For better and for worse, they’re our leaders, for the present. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/29 "2005-11-09T16:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > A melted-down administration is as bad for the country as the irresponsible one we’ve had for 5 years. You’d normally think it would pretty much have to be, wouldn’t you? It’s hard to describe a hypothetical scenario worse than the real one without resorting to ridiculous hyperbole. People have often said (of many different Presidential administrations) that the country would be better off with no prez at all than \_\_\_\_, the current one. Or better that they’re so derailed that they can’t get anything at all done than that they continue to do the kind of \_\_\_\_ political idiocies they were doing back when they weren’t paralyzed into ineffectiveness. I’m not so sure it’s hyperbole any more. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/30 "2005-11-09T16:31:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s a pretty tough scenario to imagine, though. President Dick “Nineteen Percent” Cheney? The guy with lower public approval ratings than Nixon had when he resigned in disgrace? How the hell could President Cheney even hope to govern the country? Hasn’t he been secretly governing the country since GWB’s election? From an undislosed location? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/31 "2005-11-09T16:34:25Z")
Heh. Even if he had been, of course, governing secretly through a popular puppet leader is one thing; governing openly as your own much-disliked self is harder. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/32 "2005-11-09T16:37:11Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Sounds to me like the Cheney camp is setting Bush up for a mental competence ouster. This will put him in coflict with the Bush Crime Family. Might be some exciting news coming out of the White House if this shit keeps up. I dunno. Maybe God’s just having second thoughts about anointing this idiot. Since He can’t lose face, He’s trying to lay it off on Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/33 "2005-11-09T16:38:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We don’t get to replace them until 2008 - meanwhile, the damage is going to continue and increase, or else we’ll have to go through an impeachment/resignation drama with both of them, consuming a year or more by itself, followed by a caretaker Hastert administration with little real support of its own. Or we wait until the Democrats take back the House in 2009, impeach the rascals, and we get interim President Pelosi! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/34 "2005-11-09T17:23:46Z")
**Bob** , dude, we libs are supposed to be the \*\*reality-\*\*based community here. I know it’s a tough job but somebody’s gotta do it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/35 "2005-11-09T17:26:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Bob** , dude, we libs are supposed to be the \*\*reality-\*\*based community here. I know it’s a tough job but somebody’s gotta do it. 😉 I know but a guy can dream, can’t he? Not a huge Pelosi fan but boy wouldn’t it be fun to see the right wing hysteria that a President Pelosi would bring. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/36 "2005-11-09T17:39:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There have been rumors that the overall White House atmosphere has just been generally tense lately: > > > [@](#): > > > > [October 11](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7509.shtml): > > > > President George W. Bush’s temper tantrums are on the rise with White House insiders reporting increasing tongue-lashing of staffers, obscenity-filled outbursts and a leader driven to the edge by what he sees as party disloyalty and a country that no longer trusts him. > > > > Conservative backlash over his latest Supreme Court nominee may, in fact, have pushed the President over the edge. > > > > “He’s out of control,” one White House aide says privately. “There’s no other way to put it. His anger spills over in meetings. He berates anyone who brings him bad news but there’s not a lot of good news we can bring the President right now. He calls other Republicans ‘motherfucking traitors’ and it is becoming more and more of a challenge to keep that anger from showing in public.” […] > > > > But is this something new? Consider this from Andrew Stephans of The Observer in London: > > > > “The 43rd US President has always had a much-publicized knack for mangled syntax, but now George Bush often searches an agonizingly long time, sometimes in vain, for the right words. His mind simply blanks out at crucial times. He is prone, I am told, to foul-mouthed temper tantrums in the White House. His handlers now rarely allow him to speak an unscripted word in public.” So Bush has decided to stop emulating Lyndon and has moved on to Dick Nixon, eh? When he gets around to doing Gerold Ford impressions someone let Chevy Chase know; he has this old routine in waiting in hopes of reviving his ice-cold corpse of a career. At least someone might benefit from this mess. What’s old is new again. [thread=343469]Those people who are so hep on the 60s[/thread] should be excited. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/37 "2005-11-09T17:44:40Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > You hear Scooter got expelled? No shit? Heavy. I know for a fact that Laura takes it in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/38 "2005-11-09T17:54:32Z")
Ok, first thing I gotta say: REALITY BASED COMMUNITY is the dumbest fucking concept I’ve ever heard. I watched for the last five years as Liberals talked about how much smarter they were than conservatives as the conservatives outsmarted them again and again. Neither side has been particularly “reality based” for the past five years. Ok, on to the next thing. Bush is melting down, but Cheney’s base is crumbling. The entire executive is going down, it’s not just an insane president, it’s a fractured executive through and through. Soldiers have free will. Cheney could not institute martial law even if he took power. Being president doesn’t make one god of the universe, they have to have the support of the populace to govern, something Cheney wouldn’t have. Last but not least, if Cheney tried to take Bush out due to mental instability, we’d start seeing new evidence come to light that would be enough to indict Cheney. Cheney cannot stay in the administration without Bush. So the thing that really disturbs me is that now is the best time to attack. If I were Osama bin Laden, I’d hit before the year is out, while we have a shattered executive that won’t be able to come up with a coherent retaliatory plan. That’s what I am really worried about. This partisan hackery is all useless whingeing as far as I’m concerned. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/39 "2005-11-09T18:23:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > REALITY BASED COMMUNITY is the dumbest fucking concept I’ve ever heard. Oh, come now, it can’t hold a candle to the “grave and gathering threat” posed by Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139/40 "2005-11-09T18:37:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > REALITY BASED COMMUNITY is the dumbest fucking concept I’ve ever heard. You do know who came up with it, don’t you? Here’s Ron Suskind: > [@](#): > > In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn’t like about Bush’s former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend – but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency. > > "The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-divide/330139.md?page=3)