# Bush-Cheney propaganda, fresh from Iraq! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407 "2004-04-05T18:52:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/21 "2004-04-05T22:17:42Z")
Maybe I should have phrased that better. I am _genuinely_ surprised, in my experience **Unc** has been a vociferous advocate, but not a mendacious one. Even known to apologize for the occassional fuck-up, the mark of a gentleman and a Doper. So when I say surprised, I mean surprised. Got two bucks says he does the right thing by this. (Old story: Noah Webster, lexicographer extraordinary, caught in bed with the maid by his wife…) Wife: “Noah, I am surprised!” Noah: “No, my dear, _I_ am surprised, you are astonished” This message brought to you by the Professional Association of English Majors. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/22 "2004-04-05T22:24:27Z")
How qualified can this person be if he quoted the 20 billion dollar figure instead of the 89 billion? Doesn’t this person read the papers? I have also noticed that Bush politicizes everything. I recently received a letter about how glorious the new changes in Medicare are going to be. It had all of the earmarks of propoganda; it wasn’t straight-forwardly informative at all. In the end it was “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” I don’t want snuggly sweet letters from my government about things that haven’t happened yet. And I don’t want my tax dollars spent on unnecessary mailings. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/23 "2004-04-05T22:32:39Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > Good point, but these aren’t military journalists, are they? No, but I suspect they’re handing out the same sort of “good news” that came from both military and civilian administration flacks in the Vietnam War. Question is - is the Iraq press operation a horribly sinister development dreamed up by the Bushites, or is it just the latest example of government trying to put the best possible face on its policies? It’s always fun to project GWB and crew as Satan, but this can backfire among people with a little knowledge of history. By the way, it would be interesting to see examples of the hard-hitting, no-holds-barred investigative journalism being churned out of the _British_ Press Office in Iraq, with their dedicated hordes of non-partisan professionals. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/24 "2004-04-05T23:02:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So when I say surprised, I mean surprised. Got two bucks says he does the right thing by this. You’re on. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/25 "2004-04-06T00:58:22Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …I was going to start a new thread, but this one looked as good as any other to post in… > > Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson is in Iraq in the moment, and he had this to say about the Iraqi Hospital Services… > > [http://news.bostonherald.com/international/international.bg?articleid=980](http://news.bostonherald.com/international/international.bg?articleid=980) > > …truly, truly pathetic. After all the Iraqi hospital services have had to put up with-from years of neglect to sanctions to looting to having to protect themselves with rifles, and this is what he has to say? Interesting. I have nothing to say in disagreement with your post, beyond noting that the story is not quite as current as your comment implies. According to the link, the Boston Herald article was dated March 2. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/26 "2004-04-06T01:09:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re on. Well, we have to allow enough time. Howzabout Thanksgiving? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/27 "2004-04-06T01:32:40Z")
Typical liberal thinking, **Lucy** , my friend; make eet High Noon tomorrow, down at the Coral, that’s the only language folks like him understan’. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/28 "2004-04-06T02:33:17Z")
**Werewolf** , old badger bugger, this “western” thing just isn’t for you. Being of a foppish and effete race of dentally challenged “city boys”, you are unfamiliar with the rough gentility of scraping your boots off on the porch steps, or you would know that the word is “corral”, being a containment for large, smelly, hairy and ambulatory vegetables. Home, home on derange. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/29 "2004-04-06T02:43:27Z")
After all this time, you still don’t think I could pass muster . . . wait: Yaa sittin’ on maaa whooorse, mistah – pretty good, eh ? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/30 "2004-04-06T02:54:36Z")
Soldiers pass muster. Cowboys pass gas. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/31 "2004-04-06T04:59:32Z")
Dear Mr. **Calling** , our word “horse” has two syllables. . > [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > **Uncle Beer** : > > You complain about **rjung’s** choice of snippets, but in your own post, leave out the last line… > > > [@](#): > > > > “Is that a surprise? No. Would Democrats do it? Yes. **But it’s particularly noxious because people’s lives are on the line**.” > > What gives… No offense, but I thought his use of ellipses made it pretty clear there was more to the quote. Or is it that you fear your peers lack the initiative to investigate what’s behind the “dot-dot-dot”? To find “The Truth,” as you see it? Funny you should mention it, by the way, because the rest of the quote constitutes the very basis of “überhijack,” wherein Mr. Boorstin gets his biased ass handed to him. You can’t blow this off, Boorstin’s statement is at the very least, perplexing; branding something, especially Public Policy, “particularly noxious” demonstrates a disconcerting lack of judgment and objectivity. I expect more from a Vice President of the purportedly _non-partisan_ Center for American Progress, especially when “progress” generally implies constructive dialog. In salted earth, the seeds of discourse wither into nitre. By openly decrying the Republican control of the Media, Boorstin manages to step on his dick and show us why, precisely, people with power must choose their words very carefully. Metaphorical isn’t it, and all brought about by one redacted quote… With regard to the OP, it’s certainly a shame that more Americans can’t digest news that is unchewed. **rjung** , you also live in Los Angeles. How many people on your city block are capable of consuming your ideology? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/32 "2004-04-06T07:13:52Z")
Haven’t seen any Bush-Cheney bumper stickers or “pissing Calvin” window decals, so I imagine they’re reasonably bright. Can’t say I’ve done any door-to-door surveys, though. But heck, if any of 'em don’t comprehend, I’ll just use smaller words. Heck, even **UncleBeer** will grasp a point once you’ve sufficiently oversimplified it for him. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/33 "2004-04-06T08:02:25Z")
This administration is all politics, no brains. It’s been confirmed over and over and over, and even the fellow travelers can’t seem to find good deferences for it. No surprises here. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/34 "2004-04-06T08:05:57Z")
Plenty of deference. It’s good defenses they can’t find. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/35 "2004-04-06T10:58:59Z")
**Jack** : > [@](#): > > _Question is - is the Iraq press operation a horribly sinister development dreamed up by the Bushites, or is it just the latest example of government trying to put the best possible face on its policies? It’s always fun to project GWB and crew as Satan, but this can backfire among people with a little knowledge of history._ Well, true enough, I suppose, but it is just as reasonable to decry the propaganda coming out of stratcom today as it was to decry the propaganda produced by the military during Vietnam, is it not? Naturally, being exposed to this sort of disinformation program now, under these circumstances, brings the issue home in a way that reading about it in history books does not. Somehow it’s always seemed so abstract to me before; something that happened before my time, so to speak. > [@](#): > > - By the way, it would be interesting to see examples of the hard-hitting, no-holds-barred investigative journalism being churned out of the **British** Press Office in Iraq, with their dedicated hordes of non-partisan professionals. :rolleyes:\* Well, I’ll wait to dismiss it until I see it. In addition, now that I stop to think about it, the thrust of the article goes a bit further than just accusations of war-time propaganda; Krane seems to be saying that stratcom is being exploited to further the aspirations of the Republican party vis-a-vis the Democrats. That strikes me as an even more serious charge. **El Cid** : > [@](#): > > - No offense, but I thought his use of ellipses made it pretty clear there was more to the quote. Or is it that you fear your peers lack the initiative to investigate what’s behind the “dot-dot-dot”? To find “The Truth,” as you see it?\* Well, no, not exactly. I just found it ironic that **Uncle Beer** would criticize a poster for “creative quoting,” and then support his accusation by means of the same technique. After all, **rjung** linked the article in his OP, so it was also pretty clear anyone who wished to read the article could do so for himself. (Perhaps **Uncle** feared the initiative of his “peers?”) > [@](#): > > \*Funny you should mention it, by the way, because the rest of the quote constitutes the very basis of “überhijack,” wherein Mr. Boorstin gets his biased ass handed to him. > > You can’t blow this off, Boorstin’s statement is at the very least, perplexing; branding something, especially Public Policy, “particularly noxious” demonstrates a disconcerting lack of judgment and objectivity. I expect more from a Vice President of the purportedly **non-partisan** Center for American Progress, especially when “progress” generally implies constructive dialog.\* Well, I disagree; but perhaps a brief reflection on the word “partisan” is in order. At least with regard to “political partisanship,” Boorstin’s statement, taken as a whole, is the very essence of “non-partisan;” he argues that Democrats, were they in charge, would be doing exactly the same thing. He then notes that this thing is “noxious;” but does that make him partisan? Or can someone have a strong opinion about something without being partisan? “Wartime propaganda is noxious,” I say, “regardless of who spreads it!” Is that a partisan statement? Or does your definition of “partisan” include “any strongly held opinion”? In order to avoid accusations of partisanship, must I mute my claim to, “Well, wartime propaganda is…just not a very good thing, really, sort of.” > [@](#): > > - In salted earth, the seeds of discourse wither into nitre.\* Whoa. Poetic. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/36 "2004-04-06T11:22:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > By the way, it would be interesting to see examples of the hard-hitting, no-holds-barred investigative journalism being churned out of the _British_ Press Office in Iraq, with their dedicated hordes of non-partisan professionals. :rolleyes: I’m really at a loss to understand your point here. The British don’t seem to _have_ a press office there at all. And the Brits aren’t too impressed with what’s going on, anyway: > [@](#): > > [Blair to Visit Bush Next Week for Talks Dominated by Iraq > By PATRICK E. TYLER > Published: April 6, 2004](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/06/international/europe/06BLAI.html) > > British officials say that while they are sympathetic with the daunting management task that Americans have undertaken, they also believe that the Coalition Provisional Authority under Mr. Bremer has become too “politicized,” meaning that events are orchestrated and information controlled with the American political agenda uppermost in mind. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/37 "2004-04-06T12:43:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, no, not exactly. I just found it ironic that Uncle Beer would criticize a poster for “creative quoting,” and then support his accusation by means of the same technique. And I find it ironic that I’m called to task for the use of truncated quotes, yet it appears that rjung’s use of them is acceptable. It is to laugh - all this irony, it is. > [@](#): > > After all, rjung linked the article in his OP, so it was also pretty clear anyone who wished to read the article could do so for himself. (Perhaps Uncle feared the initiative of his “peers?”) What, if I’d added to my post the same link that rjung used, despite it being very clear that I was quoting from the same source, it would be okay? That’s more irony, right? Fuck off Elvis; you’re just bitter over having your pants yanked down so many times. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/38 "2004-04-06T12:44:24Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > I’m really at a loss to understand your point here. The British don’t seem to _have_ a press office there at all. The linked article doesn’t make clear exactly what sort of information/press service the British have, but says this: “The U.S. team stands in deep contrast to the British team that works alongside it, almost all of whom are civil or foreign service employees, not political appointees. Many of the British in Iraq display regional knowledge or language skills that most of the Americans lack.” This statement refers to the CPA in general, but the implication is that news releases are handled by less politicized staff. So it’s legitimate to ask just how the British staff is handling public relations. As to the “British” not being impressed with “what’s going on”, it’s hard to tell from the unnamed source(s) in the link just what the beef is. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/39 "2004-04-06T12:50:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by elucidator: > So when I say surprised, I mean surprised. Got two bucks says he does the right thing by this. Fine. Show me where I’ve erred, and by erred, I mean did something that the OP didn’t do, and I’ll retract my remarks. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407/40 "2004-04-06T13:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Fine. Show me where I’ve erred, and by erred, I mean did something that the OP didn’t do, and I’ll retract my remarks. Well, just observing here, but I don’t get how the OP truncating his quotes makes it perfectly OK for you to truncate yours. High road and all that. As usual, a thread involving politics devolves into unpaid partisan advertising. Y’all go ahead and spin the thing till it flies apart; I’ll just read the article and make up my own mind, thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-cheney-propaganda-fresh-from-iraq/238407.md?page=3)