# Bush Family Values **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048 "2003-11-30T12:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/1 "2003-11-30T12:07:04Z")
I know it’s Thanksgiving weekend here in the States, so the American Dopers may be otherwise occupied, but I’m still surprised no one has brough this up. Especially since I first heard about this on Wednesday morning. Neil Bush, brother of the president, has [divorced his wife](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/15/earlyshow/living/parenting/main563285.shtml). It seems that, in addition to having a mistress, he has also been involved in some rather shady business dealings and some questionable sexual practices. Here’s a [cite from the _Houston Chronicle_](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2249990). Now, I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised about the business practices – Neil Bush was one of the top people in the Savings & Loan scandal several years ago. On the other hand, George W. Bush has been talking a lot about family values and the need to defend marriage, invoking the Bible to do so. The Bible clearly and specifically prohibits adultery, both in the 10 Commandments and in Christ’s teachings. To my way of thinking, if you are a married man and a strange woman walks into your room and offers to have sex with you, something which Neil Bush claims happened on several business trips, the correct response is, “Oh no, dear. I’m married.” _Babylon 5_ fan that I am, I’ll also offer up Sheridan’s alternative when in a similar situation, “Cold in here, isn’t it.” (Yes, I know he wasn’t married.) Whether the women were prostitutes or not doesn’t make a difference, although N. Bush seems to think it does. Time to switch to full rant mode. I am _sick_ of people preaching “family values” and condemning homosexuals while not bothering to practice them themselves. Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, Bob Barr, this means you, too. A wife or husband is not a disposable object you can toss out when you’re tired of it. Marriage vows, or any other vows, are _not_ to be entered into or broken lightly, at least not in my world view. If you want to defend marriage, rather than defend it against an old friend of mine who’s been with his partner for the last 10 years and intends to remain with him for life, why not start with a fellow who apparently is not aware that “No, thank you” is a valid option when a woman offers to have sex with him? From what I can make out, although I’m not a big follower of the Bushes, Sharon Bush has been a pretty good wife, raising the kids and helping her husband’s career. I don’t believe the perfect marriage exsists, and I’m sure they have been through some rough times, including the S & L scandal, but she stuck with him. She played by the rules, but the rules don’t always seem to apply. As for the $5,000 per month for “miscellaneous consulting services” such as “answering phone calls”, I do believe I’ll be talking to my boss about a raise tomorrow. It’s funny. I have done my best to live a good, moral life by conservative standards, although I do run with people many of them wouldn’t approve of. I’ve turned down offers of sex, and what I have no doubt would be damn, good sex at times, because I would not want to marry the person I’d be having sex with. Of my closest friends and family, none of them would consider divorce, and adultery is not an option. Liberals that my friends and I are, to various degrees, we seem to do a better job of practicing family values than those who most ardently preach it. Time for one mandatory disclaimer. No, I haven’t heard one word from Neil Bush about family values, either, and I have no idea how much his brother knew, if anything. Like I said, I’m not interested in politicians’ personal lives. I do, however, think adultery is a far greater threat to marriage than allowing homosexuals to marry. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/2 "2003-11-30T13:17:13Z")
Hey, there’s one in every family. In my family, it’s me. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/3 "2003-11-30T14:54:52Z")
Is George W. living the values he preaches? How about his dad, is his dad living those values as well? They ran on their family values, they didn’t run their family on their values. For instance, my family is my wife and son now. Anyone else that I am related to is out of my control, so don’t blame me if my sister becomes Public Crackhead Number 1, it’s her fault. Do you get where I’m going with this? ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/4 "2003-11-30T15:12:56Z")
God I hate to stick up for Bush but in this instance it was his brother…but, there is plenty of other stuff about Bush personally to indicate he is less than moral. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/5 "2003-11-30T15:56:07Z")
I think what **Siege** may be trying to illustrate is not so much “Hey look! GWB’s family is immoral!”, but more “Hey look! How can you denigrate and vilify homosexuality as a threat to the institution of marriage, but turn a blind, silent eye to adultery (which has a specific commandment against it)?” At least, that’s the feeling I got by the time I read to the end of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/6 "2003-11-30T21:10:11Z")
Thank you, **Faerie Beth**. That’s exactly what I was somewhat clumsily aiming for. Adultery’s much more common than homosexuality, and I suspect it’s the cause of a lot more divorces, but for some reason it doesn’t get any publicity as a threat to marriage. I’m also dumbfounded by the idea of these women walking into Neil Bush’s hotel room, forcing him to have sex with them. Either he’s been raped multiple times, or he’s completely unaware that saying “No” is an option. Besides, if that does bother him, I have no doubt that there are any number of single Dopers around here who’d be happy to have sex with these women for him! 😉 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/7 "2003-11-30T21:32:32Z")
What would you have him do, call a press conference and publicly admonish his brother? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/8 "2003-11-30T21:38:41Z")
Wow, you’ve one-upped **Reeder**. It’s Bush’s fault his _brother_ has poopy pants. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/9 "2003-11-30T21:48:37Z")
Guys, in my ideal world, George W. Bush wouldn’t be talking about homosexuality as if it were the only threat to marriage, nor would politicians who are on their second or third marriages. The main object of the rant is Neil Bush, who I suspect most people don’t have that high an opinion of anyway. On the other hand, maybe there’s some sort of variant of Murphy’s Law which states that each US President must have a brother who makes him wish he was an only child. After all, we had Billy Carter and Roger Clinton, although come to think of it, Reagan and Bush Sr. seem to have escaped that law. Of course, in my ideal world, I’d be making a lot closer to $5,000 a month, and I’d have a marriage of my own to defend, but why do I suspect those two are more likely to happen? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/10 "2003-11-30T21:52:57Z")
Okay, so you think Bush should make it illegal to cheat on your spouse instead of trying to keep homosexual marriages illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/11 "2003-11-30T21:55:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*Okay, so you think Bush should make it illegal to cheat on your spouse instead of trying to keep homosexual marriages illegal. \*\* Or maybe he should realize that the straights have already made a sham out of it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/12 "2003-11-30T21:58:23Z")
Aren’t W’s daughters a couple of drunken sluts? That’s what I heard. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/13 "2003-11-30T22:03:16Z")
Oh…and also his wife once killed a guy. Plus he himself is a war criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/14 "2003-11-30T22:04:22Z")
And Diogenes sinks to a new low. And here I didn’t think that was possible. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/15 "2003-11-30T22:13:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*What would you have him do, call a press conference and publicly admonish his brother? \*\* No, I wouldn’t. I would, however, hope that he could persuade other members of his fine party to cease and desist on the “Threat to the Institution of Marriage” platforms when speaking on marital rights for homosexuals. I know I can probably keep wishing on this one 😛 > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Siege_ > \*\*Time for one mandatory disclaimer. No, I haven’t heard one word from Neil Bush about family values, either, and I have no idea how much his brother knew, if anything. Like I said, I’m not interested in politicians’ personal lives. I do, however, think adultery is a far greater threat to marriage than allowing homosexuals to marry. \*\* Underlining mine While I agree that **Siege** chose a very inflammatory, high-profile example, please do not fixate on the example and dismiss the point being made. FB ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/16 "2003-11-30T22:28:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*And Diogenes sinks to a new low. And here I didn’t think that was possible. \*\* Which of my assertions do you take exception to? I didn’t know stating facts could be considered “sinking.” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/17 "2003-11-30T22:33:28Z")
His daughters do not share his views on abstinence, drinking, or attending nude parties shaven. There isn’t anything wrong with that. There is something wrong, however, with the pot calling the kettle black. The fact that children will do things that parents disapprove of is part of being a parent, and pretending that such things don’t happen presents an unrealistic vision of family values, not a sincere one. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/18 "2003-11-30T22:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Or maybe he should realize that the straights have already made a sham out of it? \*\* Fair enough. Personally, I don’t understand why people want to get married anyway. Why not just live together for as long as you can stand each other? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/19 "2003-11-30T22:38:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > **… Either he’s been raped multiple times, or he’s completely unaware that saying “No” is an option. …** “I’m just a boy who can’t say n…NNNNN…NNNNNNNN!!..” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/20 "2003-12-01T00:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Which of my assertions do you take exception to? I didn’t know stating facts could be considered “sinking.” \*\* I object to your characterization of the Bush twins as drunken sluts. Drunk, OK, but sluts? Prove it. I also object to your allegation that Bush is a war criminal. I assume you can prove that Bush’s wife is a killer, so I won’t challenge that one. I vaguely remember something about a car accident, but I’m not sure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048.md?page=2)