# Bush Family Values **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048 "2003-11-30T12:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/101 "2003-12-02T01:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Jack the Ripper wasn’t convicted either. \*\* :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/102 "2003-12-02T02:49:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > \*\ ***Shodan** , as far as I know, Bishop Robinson did not commit adultery while married to his wife, nor did he do the kind of financial shenanigans Neil Bush has. > \*\* I thought you were condemning violation of marriage vows in general, when you posted: > [@](#): > > A wife or husband is not a disposable object you can toss out when you’re tired of it. Marriage vows, or any other vows, are not to be entered into or broken lightly, at least not in my world view…Henry Hyde, Bob Barr, and Newt Gingrich have been married three times… As far as I can tell, you were referring to Bush here - I wondered why it would not equally apply to Robinson. FWIW, Googling on Bishop Robinson’s partner gives figures between thirteen and fifteen years for the duration of their relationship, while elsewhere it is claimed that he didn’t meet his partner until [after he left his wife and two daughters in 1986.](http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/11/03/robinson_elevated_as_first_gay_bishop/) So apparently he did not commit adultery with his current partner. And there is nothing credible on the Internet (unsurprisingly) that I can discover regarding whether or not he had boys on the side during his marriage. > [@](#): > > To me, to say that Bishop Robinson “did the same thing” is like saying that because Madonna and I have both been to England, we “did the same thing.” Actually, it would be more accurate to say that Robinson and Gingrich “did the same thing” - dumping a wife and taking marriage vows less than seriously. Interestingly enough, **Diogenes the Cynic** posts this: > [@](#): > > Bush Sr. supposedly had a mistress while he was POTUS but i can’t remember her name. and **Otto** assists him in the accusation, without a hint that he needs to prove it. And yet somehow or other, Bishop Robinson must be assumed innocent until proven adulterous, while the allegations of a humor magazine are taken at face value. Consistency, thou are a jewel. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/103 "2003-12-02T03:06:14Z")
**Shodan** : I did not make accusations about Bush SR. You’ll notice I said he “supposedly” had a mistress. I did not state it as fact. I also mentioned a SPY Magazine article but I did not make any judgement as to it’s validity, I only stated that it existed. Please don’t mischaracterize what I have said. Also, there is not even an _allegation_ that Robinson was ever unfaithful in his marriage. As a matter of fact his personal life and history were subjected to intense scrutiny both by his church and by the press before he became a Bishop and no taint of imprpriety could be found. There is simply no reason to even bring Robinson into the conversation. I also have to say I take exception to your characterization that he “left” his wife and children. He was released from his vows by his wife and _he never left his children._ He has always remained an active and involved presense in his children’s lives and it’s gratuitously snide to suggest otherwise. I think your implied speculation about “boys on the side” is also insulting and insinuating and unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/104 "2003-12-02T03:16:52Z")
Typical for **Shodan** though. Not a poster worth wasting your time on. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/105 "2003-12-02T03:24:32Z")
Calling **Laura Bush** a killer is nowhere near being appropriate. I was thinking about this all day today. Words have two meanings: the OED definition, as it were, and the connotation, or what I suppose you could characterize as the gut reaction you have when you hear the word. Killer is a loaded word if ever there was one. When you think about it, you rarely hear it outside of the phrase “serial killer”. Laura Bush did indeed kill someone, so that makes her technically a killer. Calling her that, though, is a transparent attempt to put her in the same category as, say, John Wayne Gacy. This is not even close to being a fair thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/106 "2003-12-02T03:30:35Z")
To be fair, in my original post I only said that she had “once killed a guy.” The “killer” semantic came only in the context of the ensuing brouhaha with **milroyj**. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/107 "2003-12-02T03:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > What pushed me over the edge was this business about women walking into his hotel room and insisting he have sex with them. > …if it really did happen and he was genuinely unable to say refuse, then either he’s presumably a victim of multiple rapes Where do you get all this stuff about her insisting or the sex being involuntary? As far as I read it, he is claiming that there was a knock on the door, a woman offered him sex, and he accepted. It’s not particularly hard to believe, either, if whoever he was doing shady business deals with wanted to send him a “gift” of an already-paid-for prostitute. (that’s not to say that he shouldn’t have known it was a prostitute, but he’s got some amount of deniability there if money wasn’t discussed) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/108 "2003-12-02T03:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Mrs Bush wasn’t charged, let alone convicted of, vehicular homicide, or any other crime, so those calling her a “killer” are just a wee bit over the top. \*\* And Bill Clinton was never convicted of perjury, so it’s over the top to call him a liar, by your own situationally-dependent standards. **Otto** , you’re right, I even knew that. Post in speed, repent at leisure. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/109 "2003-12-02T04:05:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*To be fair, in my original post I only said that she had “once killed a guy.” The “killer” semantic came only in the context of the ensuing brouhaha with **milroyj**. \*\* This is what you said: > [@](#): > > She ran a stop sign and killed a guy. That makes her a killer. Sounds like calling Laura Bush a killer, to me. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/110 "2003-12-02T04:14:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Mrs Bush wasn’t charged, let alone convicted of, vehicular homicide, or any other crime, so those calling her a “killer” are just a wee bit over the top. \*\* Ted Kennedy wasn’t charged or convicted of driving while drunk during the MJ Kopechne incident, so “people” calling him a “drunk driver” are just a wee bit over the top: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Fuck you , it was an accident. Rather unlinke Sen. Kennedy’s drunk driving drowning of Ms. Kopechne. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Since when is drinking and driving an accident? > > Sen Kennedy kills Mary Jo while drunk, and he gets a pass from you people. > > But Mrs. Bush, the First Lady of the United States, is a killer, because of a traffic accident. Right. Got it. Tools. \*\* what was that term again? Oh yea, **tool**. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/111 "2003-12-02T04:16:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > **And Bill Clinton was never convicted of perjury, so it’s over the top to call him a liar, by your own situationally-dependent standards.** It seems that some of you want it both ways, though, e.g. in the Illegal War thread in GD. According to you guys, Clinton **isn’t** a liar because he was never convicted of perjury, but Bush **is** a war criminal because, well, y’all say so. Can’t have it both ways, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/112 "2003-12-02T04:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*Ted Kennedy wasn’t charged or convicted of driving while drunk during the MJ Kopechne incident, so “people” calling him a “drunk driver” are just a wee bit over the top: > > what was that term again? Oh yea, **tool**. \*\* Defend Ted Kennedy all you want, it just makes you look even sillier, you twit. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/113 "2003-12-02T04:27:37Z")
hey, **milroyj** would you feel better if we said “accidental killer” - you know, like Kennedy?? of course, you seem to completely ignore that nasty technicality that currently [SD (former?) rep Janklow](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/01/janklow.trial.ap/index.html) is being charged with the **crime** of manslaughter after he, to repeat your words, ‘had a car accident’ wherin he ran a stop sign, hit some one and they died. that is _exactly_ what Laura Bush did. Apparently, she’s the one in this thread who’s ‘getting a pass’ for her actions - all we’ve been doing is stating the empiracle fact that her actions directly caused the death of some one, we’ve admitted Kennedy’s criminal act of leaving the scene, admitted that he also can be correctly described as a ‘killer’ as in ‘person who has killed’ another human being. You seem to be constitutionally incapable of admitting that any of your idols have feet remotely resembling less than marble. The laws have changed over the past years, to reflect the growing understanding in the public that driving while drunk (Cheaney, Bush), being the cause of a car accident where some one died as a result (Laura, Kennedy) are _serious_ things, even potentially criminal in nature. But to only deny culpability in one set of people is the height of partisanship. Wear your crown proudly, **milroyj** , you’ve gotten it the hard way. You’ve _earned_ it. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/114 "2003-12-02T04:32:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Defend Ted Kennedy all you want, it just makes you look even sillier, you twit. \*\* who the fuck ‘defended’ him? I merely asked (repeatedly) for your proof that he was ‘drunk’ at the time. You’ve not been able to so far, so the person having difficulty proving their assertions would be you. I’ve admitted his culpability (leaving the scene of an accident). admitted that he, too can be correctly described as 'some one who has killed, ie technically, a ‘killer’. wanna shore up that assertion yet? or admit that you made spurious allegations, whereas I provided actual proof that Laura Bush was responsible for the death of another person. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/115 "2003-12-02T04:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **hey, milroyjThe laws have changed over the past years, to reflect the growing understanding in the public that driving while drunk (Cheaney, Bush), being the cause of a car accident where some one died as a result (Laura, Kennedy) are _serious_ things, even potentially criminal in nature.** What evidence do you have that Laura’s accident was a result of driving while drunk? Let me guess, none. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/116 "2003-12-02T04:41:55Z")
Nobody said she was drunk. We said she ran a stop sign, hit another car and killed somebody. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/117 "2003-12-02T04:44:35Z")
where did I say that it was? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t. You **did** notice, didn’t you, the comma - used to seperate concepts. Drunk drivers (named two) b **comma, to like, differentiate it from the former group** , 'drivers who’ve killed some one while they were driving (named two). what was that phrase again?? something about ‘looking like an idiot’??? still waiting for your demonstration of proof re: Kennedy being drunk at the time, or your admission that it was a spurious allegation. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/118 "2003-12-02T04:49:38Z")
Of course, you do have cites that Cheaney (sic) and Bush were drunk drivers? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/119 "2003-12-02T04:52:12Z")
**milroyj** - yep, I do. Still waiting for yours. gonna provide yours first?? probably not, we’ve been waiting for 2 pages now. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048/120 "2003-12-02T04:58:53Z")
You go first, twit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-family-values/216048.md?page=7)