# Bush had "bad luck". No, he didn't. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619 "2008-11-07T11:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/41 "2008-11-07T20:02:19Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I’m a 22%er. All vitriol aside, I’ve no clue what this means? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/42 "2008-11-07T20:11:25Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Unless you’re in the position, you cannot judge. If you persist, however, you’re just showing you’re own lack of humility and understanding. > > Again, I’m not a Bush supporter, but there’s so much I don’t know that it’s nearly impossible to adequately opine on his job performance. Yet you feel free to comment on the opinions of board members you know so much less about than Bush. And the reason that we know so little about Bush is that he keeps it secret when he is running a public entity. Most of these matters are secret not because of national security, but because they don’t want to be scrutinized by the public. This is not a problem of humility or lack of understanding on the part of critical members of the public, but rather lack of humility and understanding on the part of the members of the Bush Administration. The notion that members of the public should not criticize their government is servile, disgusting and un-American. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/43 "2008-11-07T20:20:12Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Not to be defensive of Pres. Bush, the worst president in my lifetime (and that includes Nixon and Carter), but this (FEMA contingency planning) is not something _I believe_ is of a level that our president (any president) should be handling. This kind of planning should be in place from lifetime bureaucrats, irrespective of party, ready to be implemented in case of disaster. Where President Bush failed was in his appointment of a wholly unqualified FEMA director, and the mismanagement of the Hurricane Katrina disaster by the FEMA director falls directly in Bush’s negative column. FEMA needs to be run by people trained to run it, not a lawyer who quit law because it wasn’t for him and then oversaw horse racing because of political connections. Republicans run government badly because they think it cannot and should not be run well. Grover Norquist [Grover Norquist - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Early_years_and_career) summed up this philosophy as government should be “drowned in a bathtub”, seeming to miss the point that government is necessary. Katrina actually drowned 2000 people in New Orleans’ “tubs” as the containment sections are known because FEMA was unprepared to get help to those in need. The Republicans have taken the maxim of minimizing government as an excuse to run its functions badly with people not adequately prepared. See Heckuva Job Brownie and GWBush. The idea that individual leaders need not be smart or qualified and it will all work out is just fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/44 "2008-11-07T20:25:44Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > All vitriol aside, I’ve no clue what this means? I think it means that you’re in the 22% of the public that approves of the job Bush is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/45 "2008-11-07T20:59:45Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I think it means that you’re in the 22% of the public that approves of the job Bush is doing. Really? That’s hilarious! But I _didn’t_ defend him! I very explicitly passed. And because of that, she thinks I’m a Bush supporter? Is she irrational, or simply incoherent? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/46 "2008-11-07T21:19:43Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Maybe you should try listening to them, then. You might learn something. Do you have an argument, or are you just going to take popshots from the sidelines with your pop gun? > [@Sinaijon](#): > > Really? That’s hilarious! But I _didn’t_ defend him! I very explicitly passed. And because of that, she thinks I’m a Bush supporter? Is she irrational, or simply incoherent? Neither; you’ve just elected to pop off one-liners against the tide of opinion in this thread instead of making an argument, so we have no way of knowing for sure what the hell your opinion actually is. We can only work with what you give us. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/47 "2008-11-07T21:21:40Z")
Dnftt ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/48 "2008-11-07T21:25:10Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > I agree with your OP, except that it doesn’t go far enough. Not only was Bush shown to be incredibly incompetent in the face of several minor and major tests of the office that any other President could have easily dealt with, he’s bankrupted the entire moral grounding of our democracy. In the name of “family values” and “freedom”, he has paradoxically eroded our civil liberties, made a mockery of the Bill of Rights, successfully worked to destroy families (DOMA), taken us decades backwards in environmental protection and economic viability, and compromised our moral standing all over the world with his wink-wink-nudge-nudge position on torture and other atrocities. Bush was not “unlucky”, nor was he merely incompetent; in fact, he has been one of the most successful Presidents in history in terms of accomplishing his personal agenda. Tip of the iceberg. [Bush/Cheney also did more, and more zealously and successfully than any admin since Nixon, to concentrate all governmental power in the president’s hands.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455418) The “unitary executive,” and so on. All of which Obama will now inherit. I just hope he’s enough of a constitutional lawyer to resist the obvious temptations. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/49 "2008-11-07T21:36:56Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Do you have an argument, or are you just going to take popshots from the sidelines with your pop gun? Nope. Its just a popshot. This is the pit, remember? I thought the OP was being ridiculously simplistic and overly dramatic in his assignation of blame, so I quipped as much. Next thing I know, I’m being asked for a point by point rebuttal. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/50 "2008-11-07T21:44:14Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Dnftt But what if it turns out that it’s, _gasp_, a secret Objectivist? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/51 "2008-11-07T21:56:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Why can’t he be unlucky and incompetent? Works for me. Me too! ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/52 "2008-11-07T22:48:45Z")
Nope–that doesn’t account for his intentional dry fucking of the American people and, especially, the Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/53 "2008-11-07T22:50:25Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Nope–that doesn’t account for his intentional dry fucking of the American people and, especially, the Bill of Rights. That is attributable not to W’s incompetence but to Cheney’s competence. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/54 "2008-11-07T22:52:50Z")
I’m not so sure the distinction is meaningful, especially if we’re talking about the Bush presidency rather than, specifically, Bush himself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/55 "2008-11-07T23:10:07Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > I’m not so sure the distinction is meaningful, especially if we’re talking about the Bush presidency rather than, specifically, Bush himself. The difference is that Cheney is evil while Bush is merely stupid. The Administration as a whole has been surprisingly competent at getting its (Cheney’s) way, with a few major defeats, like the privatization of Social Security. But that’s **political** competence. **Governmental** competence is when the things you get done work out as you hoped; in that regard, their record is more mixed. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/56 "2008-11-07T23:32:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The difference is that Cheney is evil while Bush is merely stupid. You’ve done a lot more research on this than I have: can you tell me just how much evidence we have that Cheney has been behind all this stuff? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/57 "2008-11-08T02:39:47Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Why can’t he be unlucky and incompetent? Works for me. He was unlucky enough to have a hurricane hit NO. He was incompetent enough to have a crony in charge. They also cut the budget for protecting the city. So it was not all bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/58 "2008-11-08T03:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Why can’t he be unlucky and incompetent? Works for me. How about we divide up the schedule? The first forty-eight hours of a crisis are decided by luck and after that it’s an issue of competence. So Bush was unlucky over terrorism on September 10 and 11, 2001. After that he was incompetent. Katrina was bad luck on August 29 and 30, 2005. Everything bad that happened after that was incompetence. The financial crisis was bad luck on September 7 and 8, 2008. Since then it’s been incompetence. As others have said, bad luck happens. But if you’re the President of the United States, you’re supposed to put on your big boy pants and deal with it, not sit and complain about how life is unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/59 "2008-11-08T04:58:38Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. 9/11. The outgoing Clinton administration had been keeping an eye on Al-Qaeda for years, and recommended keeping Al-Qaeda at the top of the list of security threats. Bush ignored that, and apparently either didn’t read or failed to absorb the August 2001 PDB “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in U.S.” And you think that somehow Bush’s administration would have possibly known about those 4 targeted airplanes? Bull shit. No one could have prevented the happenings that day. > [@](#): > > 1. Hurricane Katrina. Experts had been warning for years that a major hurricane cold overwhelm the levees and flood New Orleans. Bush should at least have had a contingency plan for how FEMA would deal with exactly those circumstances. Instead, he seemed never to have heard of such an idea, and actually said “Nobody could have predicted that the levees would break.” And so if this hurricane would have happened a couple of years earlier then the levees would have withstood the force? Bull shit again. This could have happened at any time, but happened during GWB’s watch. > [@](#): > > 1. Financial crisis. I guess this one is arguable, but I know a lot of people saw a mortgage meltdown coming, and blamed the Bush administration for being so anti-regulation. I believe this was started as part of the FNMC ans FRMC programs during the Clinton administration. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619/60 "2008-11-08T05:24:27Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > And you think that somehow Bush’s administration would have possibly known about those 4 targeted airplanes? Bull shit. No one could have prevented the happenings that day. > And so if this hurricane would have happened a couple of years earlier then the levees would have withstood the force? Bull shit again. This could have happened at any time, but happened during GWB’s watch. > I believe this was started as part of the FNMC ans FRMC programs during the Clinton administration. You are a bullshitter aren’t you. Katrina was not his fault. What happened after was all his fault. it was a mess. Cronyism at it’s worst. Fannie and Freddie are so far removed from whats going on ,it is not funny. There was a lot of warning about the towers. Several countries warned the government . They chose to ignore them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-bad-luck-no-he-didnt/471619.md?page=4)