# Bush had better do something pretty damn fast about the solidier's being killed daily **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172 "2003-07-27T00:55:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/41 "2003-07-27T05:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tedster \* > \*\* > It’s horrible, as war always is. But rest assured, the enemy is taking it up the ass a thousand times worse - that just doesn’t make it in the news. \*\* No, actually the enemy isn’t. The media is eager to report anything good about Iraq actually as you might notice with the two Hussein brothers. Instead they report that soldiers die and their attackers get away. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/42 "2003-07-27T05:34:40Z")
Well, now, if the enemy is “taking it” as badly as you say, but its just that we dont get the news…how did _you_ find out? Have you some extraordinary sources of intel you should like to share? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/43 "2003-07-27T06:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tedster \* > Astro, one thing you have to remember, the islamo-fascists have at least done their homework. Islamo-fascists? Is this the new empty term of abuse? Not bad in a way, stupid for its mixed metaphor, but of course little to do with the Baath and the like. I would try Pinko-Arabos, or something like that, again something of a fact free smear, but at least you would be betting the metaphor more or less right. > [@](#): > > The idea is simple, and logical. Virtually nobody can win against US forces in a stand-up, knock-down conflict. Guerrilla warfare against a conventionally superior enemy. Old idea, the term itself stems from the Spanish war against Napoleon as I recall. > [@](#): > > It’s horrible, as war always is. But rest assured, the enemy is taking it up the ass a thousand times worse - that just doesn’t make it in the news. I should not rest assured insofar as depending on the context, more deaths on the Iraqi side has the potential to generate more opposition. Tradition of the blood feud and all that. Further, as experiences in Algeria have shown, should the opposition be selling their resistance to the population better than the occupier - and the modern record on this vis-a-vis colonial occupiers is not encouraging for the US - it only gets worse. > [@](#): > > even fewer acknowledge the necessity of, in spite of the apalling atrocities in recent years perpetrated against Americans and our interests. This mix and match is getting me a bit disappointed, you seem to believe one is fighting al-Qaeda people in Iraq. Might be true to an extent, but the _“Party Line”_ from the Bush Administration is that the opposition is Baathist. They are, for the record, secular socialists, so you should make reference to Commies. I shall not bother to comment on emasculated men comments on a message board, it strikes me as rather empty. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/44 "2003-07-27T06:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I **n sum I am beginning to suspect that my natural inclination to support the President in a time of crisis has been played to achieve an end that does not significantly further US interests, and the real costs of which are only now becoming clear.** Give that man a prize ! On a serious note, would that more and more conservatives such as yourself lay aside their star spangled shades for a bit and start seeing this whole affair for what it really is. A FUBAR power play, filled with lies and misrepresentations from the start. About the only thing they were right on was counting on the support of the great many who felt like you. Unfortunately, as we have seen in this thread, it appears that some have those jingoistic shades tacked on to their ears. And they are still being had. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/45 "2003-07-27T06:52:41Z")
And the band plays on: [Grenade Attack Kills Marine Near Baghdad](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20030727/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq) > [@](#): > > \*\*Thirteen Americans died last week in what was believed to have been the deadliest seven-day period in the guerrilla war since Bush’s May 1 declaration. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/46 "2003-07-27T06:59:58Z")
I will add reference to my own reporting here on some recent conversations: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=179177&pagenumber=2#newpost](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=179177&pagenumber=2#newpost) Think of it as Collounsbury reporting. I should think it would be useful, as I have been mentioning for months now, for people like Astro to generate political pressure for more resources to be devoted to Iraq to avoid disaster. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/47 "2003-07-27T11:13:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > I should think it would be useful, as I have been mentioning for months now, for people like Astro to generate political pressure for more resources to be devoted to Iraq to avoid disaster. To what end; if reports are correct, fighters are now starting to be drawn to Iraq from all over the Muslim world in the same way they were after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan ? This has all the hallmarks of a unifying ‘crusade’. And from their pov, more US troops means more fish in the barrel . . . Option Two, the UN doing its nation-building thing: But will sufficient members and leaders of the UN give him a paddle to get out the creek ? Right now, I’m having a hard time seeing how that might happen given that just about everyone in the so-called ‘international community wants rid of the businessman/politco as soon as. Their view is the real world needs to get back to the important projects like Kyoto, the ICC, etc. . . . To my mind, there are just too many reasons for the ‘international community’ not to help Bush. Optiuon Three - I can’t yet see one. This is a very tricky scenario; Afghanistan, circa 1981, anyone ? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/48 "2003-07-27T11:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > To what end; if reports are correct, fighters are now starting to be drawn to Iraq from all over the Muslim world in the same way they were after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan ? This has all the hallmarks of a unifying ‘crusade’. And from their pov, more US troops means more fish in the barrel . . . It is not that grave as of yet. This is not as of yet comparable to the Soviet invasion. There is, in my judgement, a window of opportunity that is not yet closed. > [@](#): > > Option Two, the UN doing its nation-building thing: But will sufficient members and leaders of the UN give him a paddle to get out the creek ? Right now, I’m having a hard time seeing how that might happen given that just about everyone in the so-called ‘international community wants rid of the businessman/politco as soon as. Their view is the real world needs to get back to the important projects like Kyoto, the ICC, etc. . . . I find your comment incoherent. > [@](#): > > To my mind, there are just too many reasons for the ‘international community’ not to help Bush. Well that is true. Optiuon Three - I can’t yet see one. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/49 "2003-07-27T11:21:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > Optiuon Three - I can’t yet see one. This was obviously London, I did not see it. Option three is a semi-internationalization supported by US taxpayers pocketbooks. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/50 "2003-07-27T11:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by ummm… yeahh…_ > Ya, you’re right. They probably prefer Sadaam. A lot less civilian casualties that way. It’s not exactly that clear cut. From [this](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/25/1059084210391.html) > [@](#): > > The promise of a new Iraqi democracy is a blurred bauble when the Americans threaten to confiscate the machine-gun Mohammed al-Ezedeen has taken to carrying since three of his friends were executed by different gangs of car thieves, and when a businessman, Faras al-Hadi, can count off half a dozen friends and neighbours who have been victims of Baghdad’s new wave of car thefts and home robberies. > > Mustafa Abdul Hamid says: “I can’t leave my home after sunset, but” - and the 68-year-old pauses to mimic a drum roll - “they tell me I have freedom of speech.” > [@](#): > > Abdul Jabbouri, a 36-year-old teacher, said: “The Americans have robbed us of our nights. I love the freedom of the day - walking down the street and not being pestered by a government stooge demanding to know my name and whether I’m up to date on my national service. But the security crisis forces all business to close at 3pm and after 6pm it’s just too dangerous to be out.” > [@](#): > > When Faras al-Hadi criticised Saddam - obliquely - in an interview with the _Herald_ late last year, he was rebuked by the regime. And when we went looking for him this week a banner stretched across the front of his consumer-goods business, in the teeming Al Bab Al-Sharqi district, apologising because the looters had cleaned him out and now he was operating from temporary premises on a quieter stretch of Sadoun Street… > > …[H]e perched on the edge of a sofa in his makeshift office, saying: "We were living a tragedy before the war and now we are living a different tragedy. > > "In a way we were happy before. But now we are unhappy and it’s going to get worse. Communications are improving but power and security will take a long time. > > "But it’s the political situation. There are so many parties and some of them are getting violent. The fundamentalists use violence and it’s frightening. They threaten cinemas, CD shops and alcohol outlets that they will be attacked if they do not close down. > > "There is no sense that the US is in control of the political process - or anything else. > > "Most people - I say about 90 per cent - are against them being here. But now we don’t want them to leave because we do not have a police or military force. So people are saying that life under Saddam was better - we didn’t expect this. > > “Most Iraqis lived for the day [when Saddam would be overthrown] and now they are getting nothing. Probably the resistance will pay them and that will preoccupy the Americans even more - it’s getting worse already and we are going to get caught in the middle for a long time”. Freedom is a wonderful thing. But people need more than freedom. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/51 "2003-07-27T11:54:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > Option three is a semi-internationalization supported by US taxpayers pocketbooks. Ah yes; ‘Empire troops’. The British and Romans, for example, did this with good effect. Quite whether the notion works in the democratic/capitalist era remains to be seen but an interesting idea. e.g. Will (for example) Polish troops be happy to die for US. Inc/dollars . . so the question becomes, what would the nation of (in this example) Poland gain from/be given for serving the empire ? Interesting . . . ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/52 "2003-07-27T13:12:17Z")
Increased support doesn’t mean just more troops. the CSIS report for the Pentagon had reccomendations for a signifigant number of civilian personel. The gist of it was that if Iraq is rebuilt better, stronger, and faster, (the Six **tr** illion dollar nation), they think that Iraqis will more readily find ways to get over the invasion of their country. **Coll** , The origins of “Islamo-fascist”: > [@](#): > > **[WorldNetDaily](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31315)** > > **What I mean by 'Islamo-fascism’** > Some people still maintain Iraq could not possibly be in league with the likes of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida terrorist network because, after all, Saddam Hussein is a “secular” dictator, and bin Laden is an “Islamic fundamentalist.” > > While it’s true that most Arab regimes fear the jihadists, it is also true that many have sponsored them – Iraq being just one example. > > In fact, Iraq actively supported al-Qaida for a full decade leading up to Sept. 11, 2001. That support is well-chronicled in Yossef Bodansky’s “Bin Laden: The Man Who declared War on America.” (Keep in mind this book was published a full year before Sept. 11.) > > _—Joseph Farah, founder, editor, and CEO of WND_ Mr. Farah is, well… you can see how he is. He has adherents obviously. Some of them post here. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/53 "2003-07-27T13:22:56Z")
Wonderful. Ever more learned the interventions on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/54 "2003-07-27T13:24:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Increased support doesn’t mean just more troops. the CSIS report for the Pentagon had reccomendations for a signifigant number of civilian personel. The gist of it was that if Iraq is rebuilt better, stronger, and faster, (the Six **tr** illion dollar nation), they think that Iraqis will more readily find ways to get over the invasion of their country Actually if I may ask you to give a resume in the Recon thread. I am terribly behind work and don’t have the time. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/55 "2003-07-27T14:13:40Z")
**Freedom is a wonderful thing. But people need more than freedom.** So right you really are **gex gex** , but just be patient. The establishment of a lasting democracy in Iraq is an art work in progress. In a few short years we will see a shinning new star in the middle east. A nation of worth with great contributions to the larger community of mankind. Viet Nam could have been a shinning star, had it not been for the cowardness of the hippies and the polititians and the press. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/56 "2003-07-27T14:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > \*\*Viet Nam could have been a shinning star, had it not been for the cowardness of the hippies and the polititians and the press. \*\* Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/57 "2003-07-27T14:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > So right you really are **gex gex** , but just be patient. The establishment of a lasting democracy in Iraq is an art work in progress. Yes, by rank amateurs unlearned in the medium in which they are working and unaware > [@](#): > > In a few short years we will see a shinning new star in the middle east. A nation of worth with great contributions to the larger community of mankind. So runs the inane masturbatory fantasies in Conservo Porn. Like all Porn, it has little to nothing to do with the hard realities on the ground. > [@](#): > > Viet Nam could have been a shinning star, had it not been for the cowardness of the hippies and the polititians and the press. Oh, I am sure - we need only abstract away from the nationalist reaction in Vietnam, the rot from within in South Vietnam, its corruption and lack of support. Yes, indeed, it would have been a shining star, if only the hard realities had not been there. But it is convenient to speak of ‘cowardice’ in place of hard nosed analysis. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/58 "2003-07-27T15:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tedster \* > But rest assured, the enemy is taking it up the ass a thousand times worse - that just doesn’t make it in the news. They are getting their clock cleaned, it’s a dirty job that nobody wants to do, and even fewer acknowledge the necessity of, in spite of the apalling atrocities in recent years perpetrated against Americans and our interests. The enemy is taking it up the ass? Are you sure of that? Even if it is so, as was said about Vietnam: The US can kill ten times more “enemies” than the number of soldiers it is losing and yet it will be the US who tires first. They are fighting for their homeland and their independence while US forces are beginning to wonder why they are there. All the rhetoric about freedom and anticommunism did not win Vietnam and I doubt they will win Iraq. The longer the situation goes on, the more Iraqis killed, the more the Iraqis will be galvanized against the invaders. The Americans can go home but the Iraqis have nowhere to go. They are fighting for their homeland. \>\> apalling atrocities in recent years perpetrated against Americans and our interests. WTF? Some Saudis did something and that justifies killing Iraqis who had nothing to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/59 "2003-07-27T17:33:08Z")
The Vietnam analogies are way out of line here. Iraq is not Vietnam. Among the differences: [ul] [li]Terrain. Vietnam was mountainous, with jungles and lots of places to hide. Attacks could come out of nowhere and fade away before the Americans could retaliate. Iraq is mostly flat and barren. That plays to the U.S.'s strengths.[/li][li]Rules of engagement. Part of the problem of fighting the Vietnam war was that the U.S. tied its own hands for fear of drawing China or Russia deeper into the conflict. So known supply lines like the Ho Chi Minh trail remained open. Major centers of resistance were left untouched for large periods of time. Often, targets of opportunity were ignored for fear of political repercussions. In Iraq, the U.S. can target and hit anything it feels like, and is even willing to pursue fleeing fighters into neighboring countries. Basically, the U.S. writes the rules, and so far it’s not taking much off the table. Mosques, mostly.[/li][li]Technology. The intelligence gathering capability of the U.S. military today is orders of magnitude better than it was in the Vietnam era. They can target radio transmissions almost instantly. They can fill the skies with UAVs armed with hellfire missiles. Satellites with synthetic aperture radar and infra-red cameras can spot tunnels and the heat from car engines through buildings. That makes it very, very hard for a guerrilla force to stay concealed.[/li][li]Size of the conflict. Vietnam had MILLIONS of combatants. Money and weapons flowing into the north from China and Russia. In Iraq, you have maybe 10,000 ex-Fedayeen, with a few hundred million dollars of regime funds, maybe some imported fighters, and some disaffected people willing to roll a grenade into a group of Americans for a few hundred bucks.[/li][li]Popular support of the population. In Vietnam, the Vietcong had widespread support among the population. It was a populist uprising. In Iraq, this is largely not the case. Most Iraqis think the U.S. is screwing up, and they’re annoyed about that, but there’s no sense that they’re willing to take up arms en masse and oppose the United States. Basically, they just want their standard of living improved. If the U.S. can get the electricity turned on, get the oil flowing and direct some of the money to the population, and get Saddam and break the back of the resistance, things will be fine. Granted, those are some big IFs, but it does illustrate the fundamental difference.[/li] [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172/60 "2003-07-27T17:44:54Z")
It’s interesting to compare the current guerrilla war in Iraq with the guerrilla war in Germany after WW II. It took 2 or 3 years to finally end it. [http://www.command-post.org/oped/2\_archives/007763.html](http://www.command-post.org/oped/2_archives/007763.html) > [@](#): > > The Werewolves specialised in ambushes and sniping, and took the lives of many Allied and Soviet soldiers and officers – perhaps even that of the first Soviet commandant of Berlin, General N.E. Berzarin, who was rumoured to have been waylaid in Charlottenburg during an incident in June 1945. Buildings housing Allied and Soviet staffs were favourite targets for Werewolf bombings; an explosion in the Bremen police headquarters, also in June 1945, killed five Americans and thirty-nine Germans. Techniques for harassing the occupiers were given widespread publicity through Werewolf leaflets and radio propaganda, and long after May 1945 the sabotage methods promoted by the Werewolves were still being used against the occupying powers. > > Although the Werewolves originally limited themselves to guerrilla warfare with the invading armies, they soon began to undertake scorched-earth measures and vigilante actions against German `collaborators' or `defeatists’. They damaged Germany’s economic infrastructure, already battered by Allied bombing and ground fighting, and tried to prevent anything of value from falling into enemy hands. Attempts to blow up factories, power plants or waterworks occasionally provoked melees between Werewolves and desperate German workers trying to save the physical basis of their employment, particularly in the Ruhr and Upper Silesia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-had-better-do-something-pretty-damn-fast-about-the-solidiers-being-killed-daily/191172.md?page=4)