# Bush has freed the Afghans - to produce opium. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705 "2005-01-02T16:55:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/21 "2005-01-03T02:32:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They were growing poppies before President Bush was elected … > > This war was necessary and supported by the entire world… > > The United States has waged a political war in South America for years with no interruption in the flow of drugs. If you think it can be done overnight in Afghanistan you’ll need to support that opinion with some new ideas because every President who’s tried to stop drug production has failed. Again, I’m listening. I would love to hear a really good idea on the subject because I don’t have one. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > Poppies were grown under the Taliban. > [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > The poppies have been grown there and opium distributed from there since time out of mind. I don’t understand how poppies having been grown there for ages excuses the administration for walking out and braying after Iraq. Does the fact that there has been a long history of poppy growing mean we should have just shrugged our shoulders and said, “Que sera, sera?” Look guys, we had about 30-40000 troops in Afghanistan, the Taliban were almost whipped and the tribal leaders/warlords were on the ropes. There was a great opportunity to send in aid and experise. I’m not sure Halliburton would have made out because oil isn’t Afghanistan’s thing, but Archer-Daniels-Midland and Parsons Corp. surely could have participated in the job. I, quite frankly, expected as sort of mini-Marshall Plan for the country in order to get it back on its feet. I’ve got to believe that much less resources would have been used and a lot less lives would have been lost in concentrating on Afghanistan where terrorists actually hung out than have been spent in Iraq where they didn’t. I’m also taken aback by those who say that weaning Afghanis away from poppy growing is too hard because it will take years. Yet many of those same people get all gooey when our _Candide-in-Chief_ talks about how wonderful it will be, the best of all possible worlds in fact, when we have a democratic Iraq. An Iraq which is a bastard conglomeration of ethnic groups, religions and tribes that was thrown together by Britain and France for their own purposes after WWI and which has never, to my knowledge, embraced democracy to any great extent. Such rationalizing baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/22 "2005-01-03T02:44:17Z")
**David Simmons** wrote > [@](#): > > Bush has freed the Afghans - to produce opium. > > Just another benefit of the “Values President.” That’s on par with saying the reason there’s crack in the ghetto is because African Americans were freed from slavery. So, which are you? Idiot or Racist? You can get back to me on that. > [@](#): > > Such rationalizing baffles me. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/23 "2005-01-03T03:38:05Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Poppies were grown under the Taliban. [Taleban bans poppy farming](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/856410.stm) > [@](#): > > Friday, 28 July, 2000 > Afghanistan’s ruling Taleban has declared a total ban on the cultivation of the opium poppy. > A decree from the supreme Taleban ruler, Mullah Mohammad Omar, broadcast on state radio, said anyone violating the ban would be severely punished. [Taleban Wipes out Afghanistan’s Opium Production](http://www.institute-for-afghan-studies.org/AFGHAN%20CONFLICT/Drugs/Taliban%20Wipes%20Out%20Opium.htm) > [@](#): > > 8 Apr 2001 21:23 UTC > U.N. drug control officials say Taleban authorities in Afghanistan have wiped out the country’s opium crop - the largest such crop in the world. U.N. officials say the action is unprecedented, and Afghanistan’s former poppy farmers need urgent assistance to help them make the transition to farming legitimate crops. That transition is already well underway, but many Afghan farmers think giving up poppy farming will mean a harder life. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/24 "2005-01-03T03:38:07Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Others, of course, are at liberty to express their opinions that GW is the greatest thing since zippers. However, no debate here, or expression of opinion either, is going to change GW’s God given power to screw things up. Greatest thing since zippers? People have nasty painful accidents with zippers too - they aren’t all they’re cracked up to be either! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/25 "2005-01-03T04:59:43Z")
Let’s be realistic. When the Taliban were “in charge,” the warlords controlled most of the country, and Afghanistan produced at least 90% of the world’s heroin. Now that Hamid Karzai is “in charge,” the warlords and the Taliban control most of the country, and Afghanistan is making more heroin than before the war. Karzai is, realistically, the mayor of Kabul, and the rest of the country is devoted to growing poppies and smuggling, just like before the war. We accomplished nothing. We had the chance to cripple the world’s heroin supply, and we blew it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/26 "2005-01-03T05:21:29Z")
Dave, still waiting on an example of a more successful war considering you’re criticizing a country that’s a month old. Squink, you have to be aware that the Taliban was [FUNDED](http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/6210.pdf) by drugs. If you’re point is that we should run a drug interdiction program using Taliban tactics I’ll have to pass on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/27 "2005-01-03T05:56:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Squink, you have to be aware that the Taliban was [FUNDED](http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/6210.pdf) by drugs. Saddam had thousands of liters of anthrax and smallpox too. Pardon me if I take the word of the UN over the word of the US government. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/28 "2005-01-03T06:20:53Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Saddam had thousands of liters of anthrax and smallpox too. Pardon me if I take the word of the UN over the word of the US government. It’s OK, you can take the word of the US government. From **Magiver** ’s cite: > [@](#): > > Whether sincere or not in maintaining their most recent ban, the Taliban clearly has enforced it. DEA analysts note that Afghani opium production has declined dramatically from over 3,000 metric tons in 2000 to 74 metric tons through October 2001. Of course, most of the report is rubbish. The “proof” of the Taliban’s links to the drug trade comes from a public speech made by Blair in the run-up to the invasion. > [@](#): > > **Taliban Links to Drug Trade** > > In remarks delivered October 2, 2001, British Prime Minister Tony Blair referred to the Taliban as “a regime founded on fear and funded on the drugs trade.” He stressed that “the biggest drug hoard in the world is in Afghanistan controlled by the Taliban” and that “the arms the Taliban are buying today are paid for with the lives of young British people buying their drugs on British Streets.”8 The Prime Minister’s remarks indicate concern that the Taliban finance a substantial share of their military operations from the drug trade, and use income from the opium trade to fund extremists in neighboring countries such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and the Chechen resistance. That’s not to say that there _were_ no links, but if that’s the best proof on offer, well… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/29 "2005-01-03T07:47:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Dave, still waiting on an example of a more successful war considering you’re criticizing a country that’s a month old. I see no point in arguing with straw men. No one has ever said the initial phase (the military one) wasn’t successful. But as seems to be the case with GW the approach was that of a dillitante. Go in, roil things up, go on to something else. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705/30 "2005-01-04T05:33:01Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I see no point in arguing with straw men. No one has ever said the initial phase (the military one) wasn’t successful. But as seems to be the case with GW the approach was that of a dillitante. Go in, roil things up, go on to something else. What straw man? Bush’s record is now part of history. Afghanistan just had it’s first election (ever) after being defeated in one of the fasted nation-building wars (ever). You’re criticizing the President of the United States for not stopping them from producing drugs 1 month after elections. Since no other President, in the history of the United States, has stopped another country from producing drugs it is pretty bold of you to blame Bush for addressing it when the country has not had a chance to address it on it’s own. Afghanistan is not a colony. You can’t compare this event in any way, shape, or form to another President’s performance without coming up short. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-has-freed-the-afghans-to-produce-opium/282705.md?page=1)