# Bush Impresses Again **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2001, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944 "2001-10-12T01:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/81 "2001-10-12T22:34:52Z")
Sorry about the random “researched” hanging at the end of my post. I think I was going to say the book was well-researched, and then my mom called me to dinner, so I deleted it, but not completely. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/82 "2001-10-12T22:49:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*a) What is with this “The Evil One” and “The Evildoers”? Who is writing this junk? If a president said that in a movie, the audience would groan out loud. \*\* I dunno. I kinda like it. I wish they’d dub in Vader’s Theme when he says it. Hell, he could use Texan vernacular and call them “varmints”, “mangey critters”, or “low-down backstabbin’ desperados”. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/83 "2001-10-13T03:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. How much oil do you think we get from Afghanistan or any of the 'Stans? Well, Turkmenistan maybe, but how many people could find that on a map? > > 2. How much of a shit do we give about any of the countries over there that do have oil, other than for their oil? > > I’m sticking with the point. 1. We are in Afghanistan now only because we think a terrorist who murdered 5000 of our citizens lives there. Had bin laden not attacked us, we would still be ignorning Afghanistan. And Pakistan. And Uzbekistan. Unless they started somehow screwing up our ability to get oil. And remember we wouldn’t BE in the Middle East at all were it not for our socioeconomic interest in oil. I mean, do you hear anything of our foreign policy regarding, oh say, the Ivory Coast? Or Peru? No, because our economy is not directly correlated to one of their exports. 1. None. The U.S. doesn’t really care WHO is in power just as long as he/she helps maintain a stable government…so we can get our oil. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/84 "2001-10-13T21:01:53Z")
i smirked with “The Evil One” and snorted a bit with narco-trafficking…is that what the short form of narcotics traffing really is or is that just a Bushism? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/85 "2001-10-13T21:45:37Z")
“Narco-trafficking” may be a borrow-back from Spanish. Check the TV listings for Univision or Telemundo and they’ll be full of Mexican movies about “narcotraficantes”. If that was a slip, it’s a good one and he shouldn’t be nailed for it - there are so many other good examples. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/86 "2001-10-13T21:47:58Z")
**PunditLisa** , even if there were no oil over in the Middle East, there would still be Israel, and the US would still be involved in the region. Remember the religious basis for much, if not most, of the anti-American sentiment there, and consider how much of that isn’t due to oil at all. Regardless, this situation is not about oil. Even to bin Laden, it’s religious. ---
**Author:** ![lurker\_b](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@lurker\_b](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurker_b)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/87 "2001-10-14T07:10:12Z")
Seriously, were you all watching the same thing I was? I was embarassed for him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/88 "2001-10-14T16:55:08Z")
Apparently not, then. I don’t know of a single pundit who thought that Bush’s performance was anything less than above average, and a poll of pundits of all political stripes conducted by ABC gave the President an overall ‘A’ for his performance. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/89 "2001-10-14T18:42:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*So, what did everyone think of this press conference? > > My opinion is that it was very, very impressive. This is a man who everyone kept saying can’t perform without a script, and here he was answering complicated questions longer than any press conference I can remember in some time, and I didn’t think he made any major mistakes.\*\* We must have been listening to two different press conferences, then, because I was completely _unimpressed_ with Bush’s handling. He frequently stammered, he stalled, he had long awkward pauses where he didn’t know what to say, and it was clearly an effort for him to avoid “misspeakering” during an answer. It was almost as embarassing for me to listen to him give the press conference as it was for him to hold it. “Bush impresses again”? When did he impress the _first_ time? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/90 "2001-10-14T19:03:27Z")
Uh, how about his Address to the Congress after the Sept. 11 bombing, which many people think was one of the best presidential speeches in decades? I’d say that was pretty impressive for a guy who appeared to not be able to speak well at all. As for the press conference - it was unscripted. Of course he paused to formulate answers to questions - wouldn’t you? Frankly, I found his pauses to be comforting. A politician who can just rattle off glib answers doesn’t sound sincere. But Bush was clearly thinking hard about what peopel were asking, and giving them honest answers (within the limits of national security requirements). If you think this was a horrible performance, you are in the minority. I was watching ‘This Week’ on ABC this morning, and Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts both sang the praises of his press conference. For Sam Donaldson to give high praise to a Republican performance, it must have been exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/91 "2001-10-14T21:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*\*\*\*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > He also might have mentioned a certain distraction Clinton had to deal with at the time, and inappropriate domestic criticism of his actions - how many of you critics used the term “Wag the Dog” in 1998, might I inquire? > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \*But don’t you remember, Elvis, it’s ok to let lawsuits go forward while a president is in office! Why should presidents be exempt? They aren’t special! It’s not like distracting a president from his job jeopardizes a whole nation or anything! (I wonder how many people would make the same argument if someone wanted to sue George right now.) > > **Elvis, Stoid** , these excuses are pathetic for many reasons: > > – It’s the President’s responsibility to do his job. If he can’t fulfill all his responsibilities (because of distraction, illness, etc,) it’s his responsibility to find some alternative way that the job gets done. BTW this is equally true of most of us. E.g., my daughter had her gall bladder removed yesterday, and she had to make arrangements for her infant son. She didn’t use the surgery as an excuse to leave him unfed. :eek: > > – Clinton had the National Security Advisor, the Secretary of State, the CIA, the FBI, the Military, and The Inventor of the Internet available to help. He could have delegated responsibility. > > – He would have been finished with the Paula Jones lawsuit in no time at all, if he had stuck to the truth. It was his decision to conspire with Monica to commit perjury. > > – Given the potential embarassment of the Monica business, Clinton was insane to pursue the suit. He should have settled with PJ right away, instead of putting the country through Hell and then paying her demand after all. > > – Clinton’s the one who created the PJ problem in the first place when he asked her for a BJ. > > – As for the “Wag the Dog” criticism, I think it was valid. If Clinton had continued a real anti-Terror campaign, the “Wag-the-Dog” criticism would have been proved false. > > – In any event, we expect (or hope) a President will be thick-skinned enough to do the right thing even in the face of criticism. \*\* Twice Clinton asked for support and aid inthe attacks against Osama after his impeachment, and twice his requests were struck down by an irascible Congress. What do you say about that december? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/92 "2001-10-14T21:54:10Z")
Sam, is there no end to your naivete? Come on down and spend some time here, with an open and skeptical mind for a change, and maybe that can be fixed. The Beltway media is as bandwagon-driven as anyone could imagine. The fashion these days is for jingoism, patriotic appearance, and getting behind the President, as it is in all ware-related crises. It would be a shock if any of the big, entrenched media names like Donaldson did anything different - if they did, the complaints would pour into the network so fast, and the self-proclaimed superpatriotic commentators thirsty for blood would jump on him so fast, that he’d find himself without a big income anymore. Worse, he’d be out of the center circles of power. Your observations about his stated opinions bear no more weight than his stated opinions. ---
**Author:** ![\_Uigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e9a140/32.png) [@\_Uigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Uigi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/93 "2001-10-14T22:52:08Z")
Are there any pundits out there that feel they could walk 10’ in the POTUS shoes; in these times? (think very carefully before answering) President Bush is doin’ a damned fine job. He is honest, direct, and doesn’t mind pointing a finger (and bomb) at the bastards/butchers that must be completely shut down. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/94 "2001-10-14T23:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\* > Twice Clinton asked for support and aid inthe attacks against Osama after his impeachment, and twice his requests were struck down by an irascible Congress. What do you say about that december? \*\* Well, clearly, I am not december, but I am unaware of what you talking about here. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/95 "2001-10-14T23:21:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\* > Twice Clinton asked for support and aid inthe attacks against Osama after his impeachment, and twice his requests were struck down by an irascible Congress. What do you say about that december? \*\* Well, clearly, I am not december, but I am unaware of what you talking about here. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/96 "2001-10-14T23:30:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > > \*\* > > Twice Clinton asked for support and aid inthe attacks against Osama after his impeachment, and twice his requests were struck down by an irascible Congress. What do you say about that december? \*\* > > Well, clearly, I am not december, but I am unaware of what you talking about here. Cite, please? \*\* I am december, but, other than that, elucidator’s statement applies to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/97 "2001-10-15T00:00:26Z")
As to Our Leaders impressiveness: There is, as you may have noticed, an astounding wave of feeling in our nation. It is difficult to imagine what Our Leader might have done that would not have been lauded and praised. Our Media Whores have carefully analyzed the situation, and have shrewdly determined what side thier bread is buttered upon: An imaginary Peggy Nooner column: _…when the President strode manfully up and stapled his virile member to the podium, every man knew instantly that this was a leader, a fearless leader to be reckoned with, and every woman gaped with awe at the majestic girth of his statesmanship, except that bitch Hillary Clinton, who…_ Well, ok. Maybe not. But my point is that, with the entire country as a devoted chorus, the preacher just could not fail. The reviews were written hours before the performance, save only for the inclusion of the quotes. He performed adequately, which was all that was required. Now, if Bill C. had had the same audience under the same circumstances, Tom Delay would have volunteered to strap dynamite to himself and jump from an airplane into Kabul, Oliver North would have shot himself just to _practice_ taking a bullet for His President! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/98 "2001-10-15T00:38:38Z")
elucidator: > [@](#): > > Well, ok. Maybe not. But my point is that, with the entire country as a devoted chorus, the preacher just could not fail. The reviews were > written hours before the performance, save only for the inclusion of the quotes. I’d agree with that. Most media and citizens in general are gonna get behing the President when something like this happens, as long as he doesn’t go loopy or fall completely on his ass. So yeah, the reviews were written beforehand. > [@](#): > > He performed adequately, which was all that was required. Well, here I disagree, and I think you’ll have to concede that the reviews had to be rewritten based of Bush’s performance. We’ve never seen evidence that we has much of an orator before, and he clearly surpassed himself. Let’s call a spade a spade. He did much better than adequate, and I’m as surprised as anyone about that. In fact, I’d say his performance was superior. Regardless of your particular grade for his speech, would you agree that Bush wins the award for Most-improved Public Speaking of an American politician? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/99 "2001-10-15T01:07:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \*\*\* > > Regardless of your particular grade for his speech, would you agree that Bush wins the award for Most-improved Public Speaking of an American politician? \*\* Say something _nice_ about…Jeez, **Scylla** , this is _me_ you’re talking to, couldn’t you just ask me to ream my rectum with a corn cob? OK, elucidator, you can do this, you’re an open minded guy, after all…just put the fingers on the keyboard…steady…steady… He’s…very much…_aaaaaaarrrgh!_…im…proved. I gotta go lie down for a week or so. This has been a rough day. ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944/100 "2001-10-15T01:32:59Z")
Let’s talk about the media. In [this article](http://www.citypaper.com/2001-10-03/urban.html), Wiley Hall III, writer of the “Urban Rhythms” column in the CityPaper, writes about the repercussions facing journalists (or Bill Mayer) when they speak out against the prez. > [@](#): > > Comedian Bill Maher, host of ABC’s Politically Incorrect, learned this the hard way after his Sept. 17 show. Responding to President Bush’s characterization of the Pentagon and World Trade Center terrorists as “cowards,” Maher quipped, “We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That’s cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it’s not cowardly.” > > Those remarks sparked a firestorm of protest letters. Sponsors pulled their advertising, and several ABC affiliates, including WJLA in Washington, have dropped the show. White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer came very close, in my view, to suggesting that Maher had given aid and comfort to the enemy. > [@](#): > > Tom Gutting, columnist for the Texas City Sun, wrote that on Sept. 11 the president was “flying around like a scared child, seeking refuge in his mother’s bed after having a nightmare.” Bombarded with angry letters, the paper’s publisher apologized for running the piece, saying that the column had made him sick. > > Grants Pass Daily Courier columnist Dan Guthrie lost his job after writing that Bush had “skedaddled” after the attacks: “The airline passengers whose struggle with hijackers is believed to have led to its crash in Pennsylvania are the heroes of this rotten week,” he wrote. “They put it all on the line. Against their courage, the picture of Bush hiding in a Nebraska hole becomes an embarrassment. The kid has lived a pampered life of privilege and games. His first time under real pressure, he bolted.” > > Guthrie’s paper also found it necessary to apologize after howls of protests from readers. “Criticism of our chief executive and those around him needs to be responsible and appropriate,” Daily Courier editor Dennis Roler in explaining Guthrie’s ouster. “Labeling him and the nation’s other top leaders as cowards as the United States tries to unite after its bloodiest terrorist attack ever isn’t responsible or appropriate.” Those are the highlights of the article. I’m all for journalistic integrity, but I’m not so sure that the media would even be allowed to speak poorly about Bush without a mass dismissal of journalists everywhere. There’s a sub-argument here about whether the media reflects the masses or vice versa; in this particular situation, I think the teeming millions want to hear wonderful things about the man who is deciding the future of our country, so the media responds thusly. I’d much rather hear the good with the bad, but I’m sure there’s a lot of Americans who would prefer to just cover their ears and scream “I can’t hear you, nyah nyah nyah!” Hell, I guess honestly I’d prefer that, but I’m just not that kind of girl. Anyway, it’s kind of interesting when you think that just about everyone in this thread had their “reviews…written hours before the performance” as well. Myself included. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-impresses-again/86944.md?page=6)