# "Bush is a crook" says Mr. Krugman **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087 "2002-07-02T19:33:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/221 "2002-07-10T23:31:35Z")
I think **Scylla** and **elucidator** deserve joint laurels for this incredible rhetorical decathalon. Okay, anyone wanna switch the topic to Cheney and Halliburton? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/222 "2002-07-10T23:47:00Z")
If the laurels are for endurance, they are well deserved. If for honorable debate…well, thats another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/223 "2002-07-11T00:10:57Z")
It’s good of you to make such an admission. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/224 "2002-07-11T00:55:29Z")
Keep in mind that at no time during this thread did I ever call you “liar”. Your boorishness, sir, is exceeded only by your obstinance. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/225 "2002-07-11T02:57:53Z")
You’ve engaged in several lies and misrepresentations. In one of those I was mistaken for which you have my sincere apology. That has nothing to do with the other instances, of evasions, misrepresentations and outright lies you’ve told. Your promise to answer my direct questions if I answered your grounding questions remains broken. That was a lie. Twice you accused me of dodging your questions when I answered point to point. Those misrepresentations as well as several otehrs I addressed where they occured are lies. We done? ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/226 "2002-07-11T07:06:29Z")
Sure he knew about it, and there isn’t a damn thing you or anyone else can do about it. Ha! Ha! Ha! He’s the President and will control your future and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Bend over, ya panty waist whiners, 'cause the real men are in charge and here it comes again! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/227 "2002-07-12T03:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s the President and will control your future and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it Thank G\_d that isn’t true. I’d have to move to Canada :eek: if it were. Fortunately our poor system has a few other branches of guv’mint that influence my life for better or worse. Bend over back at you.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/228 "2002-07-12T06:08:10Z")
Not to rub salt in wounds, or anything… (No, really, the wound is there, the salt shakers here, its all a coincidence…) Mr. Krugmans latest here [http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/opinion/12KRUG.html?ex=1027447494&ei=1&en=8a0dc0fc9fb9fa5c](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/opinion/12KRUG.html?ex=1027447494&ei=1&en=8a0dc0fc9fb9fa5c) and further Harken documents here [http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=386&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0&L5=0](http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=386&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0&L5=0) written in Corporate Hieroglyph, and may very well contain the smirking gun. They might also reveal who really shot JFK, for all the sense I can make of them. There are passages which _seem_ to be saying (Jan. 9, 199 letter to SEC) that Jr. knew X by day Y. But that will require clarity and caffiene that is currently unavailable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/229 "2002-07-12T07:23:11Z")
And the hits just keep on coming!! [http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/2002/07/11/bush/index.html?x](http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/2002/07/11/bush/index.html?x) Joe Conason, at _Salon_, writing about, amongst other interesting things, that he believes Harvard University is the aforementioned “poor dumb schmuck” who bought Jr.s stock. And, of course, he refers to the silly stuff, how Jr. directs reporters to reference materials he has no intention of providing. More and more looking like Jr.s going to have to cough up the records. Peevishness not withstanding. ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/230 "2002-07-12T08:03:18Z")
You guys don’t like it too bad. Bush doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody. He is completely clean. And enough of this crap about him not being a great speaker. He is a great man and even better of a conservative than Ronald Reagan! Ann Coulter said so, and I’m gonna go get me some of that screaming hot Coulter poon tang! ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/231 "2002-07-12T13:05:28Z")
Um, **taggert** , my new friend, normally I welcome newbies to this wonderful message board when I see their first forays into the debate forum. First, though, I’d like to offer a friendly caution. This particular forum on the SDMB is for _debate_. Your comments here might be more appropriate to the BBQ Pit or IMHO (please see forum descriptions on the first page). On the other hand, if you’ve something constructive to add to this thread, your participation would be welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/232 "2002-07-12T13:22:39Z")
I’ll hold my breathe and wait for the smoking gun. Any page now. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/233 "2002-07-12T13:37:31Z")
I propose we bookmark this thread to revive it as more information is disclosed. (There’s a smoking gun _somewher_ in Harken, **Scylla**. Whether it includes Mr. Bush’s fingerprints is the question, I think.) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/234 "2002-07-12T13:51:42Z")
xeno: > [@](#): > > (There’s a smoking gun somewher in Harken, Scylla. Whether it includes Mr. Bush’s fingerprints is the question, I think.) Probably more like a steaming noodle. What it looks like to me was that the IMR (I think that’s the initials of the insider group) was on the best face of it, a stopgap measure to prop up the liquidity picture pending the final disposition of Aloha. What’s more likely, and what would be the steaming noodle would be malfeasance on the the part of the EE in regards to IMR. I.E. They had a buyer, and set themselves up as a middleman to make a little $ under the table. Unethical, possibly illegal. Not much to do with Bush’s position at the company. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/235 "2002-07-12T14:07:59Z")
Maybe it was a smoking noodle? In any case, steaming piles of _something_ are lying around all over the place. (We can tell by the odor wafting from the corporate offices of Harken and the White House press office.) And I’ve no doubt that the hounds of the press’ll find some of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/236 "2002-07-12T14:13:21Z")
Xeno: It looks to me more like they’re trying to create one out of whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/237 "2002-07-12T14:16:43Z")
Jeez, how do ya get a noodle out of whole cloth? And do you steam it or smoke it? ::confused, as ever:: To be continued later? ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/238 "2002-07-12T15:19:00Z")
_To be continued later?_ Well, not if Mr. K. has anything to do with the matter ;); [http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/opinion/12KRUG.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/opinion/12KRUG.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/239 "2002-07-12T16:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Joe Conason, at _Salon_, writing about, amongst other interesting things, that he believes Harvard University is the aforementioned “poor dumb schmuck” who bought Jr.s stock. > > \*\* I would disagree with this statement. He does say that Harvard owned 30 percent of Harken, but states previously that “who bought the stock remains a mystery.” But then, there is this, from the same article: "On June 7, **two weeks before Bush’s stock sale** , [Harken President Mikel] Faulker provided Bush with a summary of a June 5 meeting of the company’s executive committee held in New York. The memo warned of a “Harken International shutdown effective June 30, unless third party funding [is] obtained,” and discussed plans to lay off 40 employees. The memo said the company had lost $28.5 million in trade credit since Jan. 1, and another $11.8 million was “in jeopardy,” and said “most companies that have seen [the company’s annual report] are nervous.” Is it just me, or is the air getting slightly smoky around here? ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087/240 "2002-07-12T16:22:46Z")
Ah sorry, **elucidator** , I have been paying attention to your posts, but I thought that your “latest” Krugman column was the one before this one. Folks–I’ve just re-linked a column that elucidator has already called to our collective attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-crook-says-mr-krugman/117087.md?page=13)