# Bush is a detail wonk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252 "2005-01-23T16:10:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/81 "2005-01-24T23:55:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > So you seem to be implying. Myself I think its a bit more widespread than you think it is. _shrugs_ > [@](#): > > Er…no. Not when I already said that they (i.e. the mainstream press and other news organs) didn’t, and even went to the trouble to explain WHY they didn’t. YOU are the one claiming it wasn’t a factor at all. I just wondered what you had to back that up. I don’t need a ‘cite’ btw…a more detailed explaination will do for me. Where do you think most Americans get their news? And how much of the HELIEDHELIED was there in those sources? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/82 "2005-01-25T00:05:52Z")
> [@Demorian](#): > > Where do you think most Americans get their news? And how much of the HELIEDHELIED was there in those sources? Where do most American’s get their news? Probably from a variety of sources including the web. Where to most American’s get the majority of their news? From the main outlets I’d say…broadcast and cable news. How much of the ‘He Lied!’ meme was in those sources? Probably not that much, but a non-zero amount. Mostly I saw it on the major outlets (CNN, Fox, CBS and BBC are what I mainly follow) in the editorial sections, or on shows like Crossfire or The No Spin Zone…things like that. Peripherally it was seen often in the coverage of the various protests…big signs proudly proclaiming ‘Bush LIED and people DIED!’ hung about the neck of Nazi uniformed effigies of Bush and his cohorts. I think it was a meme that was a bit more widely known and understood than you seem to think it was. Thats just my gut feeling, and as anna pointed out I don’t have a ‘cite’ to back that up with either. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/83 "2005-01-25T00:14:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > …Thats just my gut feeling… Yeah, I have those too. They’re not very reliable, you know. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/84 "2005-01-25T00:29:09Z")
Yet you share them with us all the time 'luci. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/85 "2005-01-25T00:33:32Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Where do most American’s get their news? Probably from a variety of sources including the web. Where to most American’s get the majority of their news? From the main outlets I’d say…broadcast and cable news. How much of the ‘He Lied!’ meme was in those sources? Probably not that much, but a non-zero amount. > > Mostly I saw it on the major outlets (CNN, Fox, CBS and BBC are what I mainly follow) in the editorial sections, or on shows like Crossfire or The No Spin Zone…things like that. Peripherally it was seen often in the coverage of the various protests…big signs proudly proclaiming ‘Bush LIED and people DIED!’ hung about the neck of Nazi uniformed effigies of Bush and his cohorts. A “non-zero sum” is a lot smaller than a barrage of constant chattering. Thanks for admitting that much. > [@](#): > > I think it was a meme that was a bit more widely known and understood than you seem to think it was. Thats just my gut feeling, and as anna pointed out I don’t have a ‘cite’ to back that up with either. Maybe, I don’t watch or read major news outlets that much. But your point earlier was that (without looking up your terminology) a barrage of incessent HELIEDHELIEDHELIED from the left is what drove Bush to victory… I charged that it was a minor issue largely resulting from the realization by the left that people just had no concept of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/86 "2005-01-25T01:30:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yet you share them with us all the time 'luci… > [@](#): > > But according to Woodward, who spent ample time with Bush before writing his book, the President had no evidence that Iraq was involved in 9-11. He only had a gut feeling. > > “I believe Iraq was involved but I am not going to strike them now. I don’t have the evidence at this point,” Bush said to his war cabinet, [http://www.makethemaccountable.com/leopold/030226\_PowellWarnedBush.htm](http://www.makethemaccountable.com/leopold/030226_PowellWarnedBush.htm) So does he. You and I don’t start any wars, unless you do. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/87 "2005-01-25T01:52:27Z")
> [@Demorian](#): > > A “non-zero sum” is a lot smaller than a barrage of constant chattering. Thanks for admitting that much. Only if you assume that American’s are in some kind of news bubble unless it comes from a major outlet. ARE you claiming that?? Also, ‘non-zero sum’ could mean anything from (any number greater than zero)% to 100%…both are non-zero, no? In other words this was my way of saying ‘I have no frigging idea, but know that it happened sometimes as I observed it myself’. > [@Demorian](#): > > Maybe, I don’t watch or read major news outlets that much. But your point earlier was that (without looking up your terminology) a barrage of incessent HELIEDHELIEDHELIED from the left is what drove Bush to victory… I charged that it was a minor issue largely resulting from the realization by the left that people just had no concept of it. I was merely addressing your point about the the meme in the major outlets. I never said this the only way American’s were bombarded by the meme…you seemed too. I only indicated that it WAS also addressed there. I think American’s heard the He Lied meme in any number of places…and that it was pretty common knowledge. How to test this theory though? No idea here. You got any ideas? In addition, I said it was a factor…not the ONLY reason Bush won. I do believe that the various Bush bashing themes had an impact on the election, including the He Lied meme. However, this back and forth is pointless to my mind…you are convinced it didn’t have an impact, my own observations tell me otherwise. > [@elucidator](#): > > So does he. You and I don’t start any wars, unless you do. Well, I’m not sure what this has to do with your quoted statements (or mine), but I’d say that Bush making a gut call and being wrong about it was an excellent reason to get rid of the man. Too bad THAT wasn’t the major meme chanted at by the left instead of ‘he lied’. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/88 "2005-01-25T02:07:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > … Too bad THAT wasn’t the major meme chanted at by the left instead of ‘he lied’. Excuse please, but didn’t you just admit that this is nothing more than your “gut feeling”? Our “gut feeling” is that Bush lied, why is yours any better, considering that we actually _have_ evidence to buttress our intuition, and you got squat? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/89 "2005-01-25T02:29:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Excuse please, but didn’t you just admit that this is nothing more than your “gut feeling”? Our “gut feeling” is that Bush lied, why is yours any better, considering that we actually have evidence to buttress our intuition, and you got squat? Really? You have real evidence he lied and knew Iraq didn’t have WMD? Memos perhaps or maybe taped conversations of GW saying he knew Iraq didn’t have WMD but that we should invade anyway? Some other solid proof? Well trot it out 'luci and lets look it over. I’ve yet to see anything but speculation and bullshit…some real evidence would be rather refreshing!! BTW, don’t twist my words…when I said ‘gut feeling’ I wasn’t talking about this issue but about something entirely different. Perhaps you figure that you can score some points by trotting this out because people will be too lazy to go back and look? Well, let me get that out of the way: > [@XT](#): > > I think it was a meme that was a bit more widely known and understood than you seem to think it was. Thats just my gut feeling, and as anna pointed out I don’t have a ‘cite’ to back that up with either. In case you were merely confused by what I was writing, and giving you the benifit of the doubt, let me do a brief translations for you 'luci. I’m saying here I have a gut feeling about how wide spread the meme of ‘He Lied!’ was in the general population. I wasn’t refering to whether or not Bush ACTUALLY lied or not here…nor what my feelings were on it one way or the other. I’m sure you were merely confused though and not trying anything underhanded though. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/90 "2005-01-25T02:32:34Z")
> [@Demorian](#): > > Maybe, I don’t watch or read major news outlets that much. But your point earlier was that (without looking up your terminology) a barrage of incessent HELIEDHELIEDHELIED from the left is what drove Bush to victory… I charged that it was a minor issue largely resulting from the realization by the left that people just had no concept of it. I don’t mean to speak for **xtisme** , who has done a fine job of speaking for himself, but I think the contention that nobody knew about the “Bush lied” meme is a laugher. Here are Bush lied [t-shirts](http://www.funny-tshirts.biz/store/customer/product.php?productid=16346). Here are Bush lied [bumper stickers](http://irregulartimes.com/sbushlied.html). Here are Bush lied [buttons](http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50790&item=6149225556&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW). Here’s Bush lied on [ebay](http://search.ebay.com/bush-lied_W0QQfromZR10QQfsopZ1). Here are articles referring to the Bush lied meme in [salon.com](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/30/realvoices/index_np.html), [, the [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v4/sub/MarketingPage?user\_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FRTGAM.20040314.wiraq0315%2FBNStory%2FFront%2F&ord=1106619003404&brand=theglobeandmail&force\_login=true]Globe and Mail](]the Guardian[/url). Here’s the meme being referenced on the [radio](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/8/25/104031.shtml). Here’s [former Senator Max Cleland](http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040719-105356-6189r.htm) saying that Bush lied to us on Iraq. Here’s an article in the [Washington Post talking about Al Sharpton hitting the meme in one of the Presidential debates](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A44650-2004Feb15) (and noting that Sharpton’s accusation that Bush lied was met with “heavy applause”). Here’s a [USA Today article in which Senator Robert Byrd accuses Bush of lying on Iraq](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-05-21-byrd-usat_x.htm). Here’s a [Reuter’s article talking about how former Vice President Al Gore hitting the relevant talking point](http://www.oliverwillis.com/entries/0604/gore_exposes_more_bush_lies.html). Here’s [John Kerry](http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0726b.html) varying the theme slightly by talking about how Bush and Cheney didn’t tell the truth about WMD in Iraq. Here’s [Michael Barone responding](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/mb20040719.shtml) to the “Bush lied folks” (which would certainly be an interesting response if no one had ever heard the refrain "Bush lied). Shall I go on? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/91 "2005-01-25T02:36:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No doubt. I’m convinced that Harry Truman is the dumbest president I know of, but I’d rather have him than Bush any day of the week. What on Earth could possibly lead you to this conclusion? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/92 "2005-01-25T02:42:20Z")
He DID lie…multiple times. That’s just a plain old fact. Some on the left keep repeating it because we’re amazed at the level of denial of those who continue to support him. The guy freaking lied to start a war and kill people. Hello? Hello? Is this thing on. Oh…and he’s stupid too. That’s no caricature. The guy believes in creationism for Christ’s sake. Creationist = dumbass. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/93 "2005-01-25T02:47:58Z")
**Originally posted by robbie** > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Martin Hyde > -Reagan was talking in the context of global warming when it came to “trees pollute more than cars” in that it is very true trees produce many times the greenhouse gases of cars (98% of all greenhouse gases come from the natural wrold.) > > I can’t let this competely erroneous comment go by the wayside. > > During photosynthesis, trees absorb carbon dioxide, a major greenhouse gas. Reagan, IIRC, got this backwards, and was ridiculed for the comment. Can you seriously be saying that you believe that “it is very true trees produce many times the greenhouse gases of cars”?! I’ll correct you both. First, Reagan’s statement had nothing to do with global warming or CO2 emissions, for the simple reason that at the time he said it, global warming was not on anyone’s radar screen. In fact, at the time there was a worry about a ‘new ice age’ and global cooling. What Reagan actually said was that trees produce more ‘oxides of nitrogen’ than industry. He wasn’t correct, but he was close. Trees do pollute - the Smoky Mountains are smoky because the terpines emitted by the forest break down in sunlight into smog. While Reagan wasn’t strictly correct, he was a lot more correct and educated than the people who giggled and guffawed at the very notion that trees could emit pollution. From this [NASA press release:](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/MediaAlerts/2004/2004092817691.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*STUDY: EMISSION OF SMOG INGREDIENTS FROM TREES IS INCREASING RAPIDLY \*\* > > … > > Although scientists knew that trees contribute substantial amounts of VOCs to the atmosphere, the rate of increase in recent decades was previously unrecognized. “If we don’t understand what’s going on with biogenic (plant-produced) VOCs, we are not going to be able to weigh different air-quality strategies properly,” said Purves. “It’s a big enough part of the puzzle that it really needs to go in there with the rest.” > > … > > **Noting President Ronald Reagan’s notorious 1980 reference to trees causing pollution (Reagan said: “Approximately 80 percent of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation.”)**\*, the authors conclude: “The results reported here call for a wider recognition that an understanding of recent, current and anticipated changes in biogenic VOC emissions is necessary to guide future air-quality policy decisions; they do not provide any evidence that responsibility for air pollution can or should be shifted from humans to trees.” (\*) Reagan has always claimed that he was misquoted, and that he said “Oxides of Nitrogen” and not all air pollution. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/94 "2005-01-25T02:50:52Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I didn’t get it from someone elses brain or steal their ideas. Do you know why “ideas” can’t be copyrighted? I _pray_ for ideas worth stealing (and I’m not a Believer, as a rule). > [@](#): > > If they are goofy and it annoys you…well, don’t respond. That’s just a cop-out. > [@](#): > > From ME? Why? I’ve said all along that Bush was wrong. Here: “XT SAYS BUSH WAS WRONG AND FUCKED UP BADLY BY TAKING US TO WAR WITH INCORRECT INFORMATION”. Feel better? Its easy for me…I’m not a Bush fan nor a Republican…I was one of those undecided centrists you wrote off. If I had written you off, I wouldn’t have been hounding you so much all along, now would I? 😛 > [@](#): > > However, its asking a bit much for the Right to hold Bush responsible for being wrong about Iraq for myriad reasons…just like it would be a bit unreasonable for the Left to cut one of their own off at the knees. Didn’t stop you from denigrating the Left, though, huh? > [@](#): > > I know I know…radically wierd ideas I spout. Just call me crazy for calling a spade a spade. It would be nice if you had a cite for that “spade”. I don’t think you’re crazy. There’s another term that comes to mind… > [@](#): > > Though I know you don’t get this or agree, its appealing to the undecideds and the center that wins elections in the US. THEY are the ones that can be convinced that failure is failure without reguard for checking their political affiliation first. A preemptive “I know you won’t get this” is just another cop-out. But how nice of you to _bother_ with a reply, **Xtisme** , when you already _know_ what I’m going to think or say… Thanks much. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/95 "2005-01-25T03:15:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Oh…and he’s stupid too. That’s no caricature. The guy believes in creationism for Christ’s sake. Creationist = dumbass. Case closed. I’d dispute your position on what “Creationist =.” And apparently, Bush would dispute your position on [Bush’s position on evolution](http://slate.msn.com/id/1006378/) (quoting a NY Times piece). > [@](#): > > Characteristically, he does not believe in evolution–he says the jury is still out–but he does not actively disbelieve in it either; as a friend puts it, “he doesn’t really care about that kind of thing.” I guess that would make him agnostic on evolution. The article is really old, though (from 2000). If there’s updated info, please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/96 "2005-01-25T03:21:04Z")
I can’t tell you what a relief that isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/97 "2005-01-25T03:29:30Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > He DID lie…multiple times. That’s just a plain old fact. Some on the left keep repeating it because we’re amazed at the level of denial of those who continue to support him. > > The guy freaking lied to start a war and kill people. Hello? Hello? Is this thing on. > > Oh…and he’s stupid too. That’s no caricature. The guy believes in creationism for Christ’s sake. Creationist = dumbass. Case closed. **DtC** , I envy your ability to communicate that effectively. I’ve been dancing in circles this entire thread, and in others, about technicalities and turns of phrase that take page after page of posts and never get clearer. You sum it up nicely: amazed at the level of denial. It’s just… it makes no sense. An otherwise reasonably intelligent person like **Bricker** has gone on a rabid defense over the span of several threads trying every trick in the book to say anything but Bush didn’t lie. It is unreal. As I phrased it, like arguing with a retarded donkey (which **Bricker** isn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/98 "2005-01-25T03:31:23Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I’d dispute your position on what “Creationist =.” And apparently, Bush would dispute your position on [Bush’s position on evolution](http://slate.msn.com/id/1006378/) (quoting a NY Times piece).I guess that would make him agnostic on evolution. The article is really old, though (from 2000). If there’s updated info, please let me know. “agnostic on evolution” = fucking unbelievable dumbass. Is the “jury still out” on heliocentrism too? ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/99 "2005-01-25T03:33:46Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I don’t mean to speak for **xtisme** , who has done a fine job of speaking for himself, but I think the contention that nobody knew about the “Bush lied” meme is a laugher. Here are Bush lied [t-shirts](http://www.funny-tshirts.biz/store/customer/product.php?productid=16346). Here are Bush lied [bumper stickers](http://irregulartimes.com/sbushlied.html). Here are Bush lied [buttons](http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50790&item=6149225556&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW). Here’s Bush lied on [ebay](http://search.ebay.com/bush-lied_W0QQfromZR10QQfsopZ1). Here are articles referring to the Bush lied meme in [salon.com](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/30/realvoices/index_np.html), [, the [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v4/sub/MarketingPage?user\_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FRTGAM.20040314.wiraq0315%2FBNStory%2FFront%2F&ord=1106619003404&brand=theglobeandmail&force\_login=true]Globe and Mail](]the Guardian[/url). Here’s the meme being referenced on the [radio](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/8/25/104031.shtml). Here’s [former Senator Max Cleland](http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040719-105356-6189r.htm) saying that Bush lied to us on Iraq. Here’s an article in the [Washington Post talking about Al Sharpton hitting the meme in one of the Presidential debates](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A44650-2004Feb15) (and noting that Sharpton’s accusation that Bush lied was met with “heavy applause”). Here’s a [USA Today article in which Senator Robert Byrd accuses Bush of lying on Iraq](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-05-21-byrd-usat_x.htm). Here’s a [Reuter’s article talking about how former Vice President Al Gore hitting the relevant talking point](http://www.oliverwillis.com/entries/0604/gore_exposes_more_bush_lies.html). Here’s [John Kerry](http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0726b.html) varying the theme slightly by talking about how Bush and Cheney didn’t tell the truth about WMD in Iraq. Here’s [Michael Barone responding](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/mb20040719.shtml) to the “Bush lied folks” (which would certainly be an interesting response if no one had ever heard the refrain "Bush lied). > > Shall I go on? Yes. You found some bumper stickers and a half dozen or so editorials. It is quite simple: The “left” “barraging” the American People with HELIEDHELIED just isn’t relevant. No one decided to change their vote because they had been told that Bush lied one too many times. It had no effect whatsoever on the voting. It is just an expression of horror and frustration at a nation that is just so… blind. ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252/100 "2005-01-25T03:35:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > “agnostic on evolution” = fucking unbelievable dumbass. This thread is bordering on the unreal. “Agnostic on evolution”… what the HELL does that mean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-a-detail-wonk/286252.md?page=6)